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INQUIRY  INTO  THE  CAUSES  OF  DELAY  IN  COMPLETING 

THE  WORK  OF  THE  FIRST  SESSION  OF 

THE  FIFTY-NINTH  CONGRESS. 


Under  the  provisions  of  Senate  Resolution  175, 
Fifty-ninth  Congress,  First  Session. 


REPORT  OF  ALBERT  HI  HOWE, 

Clerk  CommiUee  on  Printing,  United  States  Senate. 


WASHINGTON: 

GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE. 

1906. 


INQUIRY  INTO  THE  CAUSES  OF  DELAY  IN  COMPLETING 

THE  WORK  OF  THE  FIRST  SESSION  OF 

THE  FIFTY-NINTH  CONGRESS. 


Under  the  provisions  of  Senate  Resolution  175, 
Fifty-ninth  Congress,  First  Session. 


California  Academy  of  Sciences 

Presented  by.SSII.-fifiOrge_C.-ifir3^3 


iWE, 


to 


WASHINGTON: 

GOVERNMENT   PRINTING  OFFICE. 

1906. 


v./'.'f' 


INQUIRY  INTO  THE  CAUSES  OF  DELAY  IN  COMPLETING 

THE  WORK  OF  THE  FIRST  SESSION  OF 

THE  FIFTY-NINTH  CONGRESS. 


Under  the  provisions  of  Senate  Resolution  175, 
Fifty-ninth  Congress,  First  Session. 


REPORT   OF   ALBERT   H.   HOWE, 

Clerk  Committee  on  Printing.  United  States  Senate. 


WASHINGTON: 

GOVERNMENT   PRINTING   OFFICE. 

1906. 


CAT.  FOR 
DOC.  DEPT. 


U(.(J3. 


iOCUMENi:3 


INQUIRY  IXTO  THE  CAUSES  OF  DELAY  IN  COMPLETING  THE  WORK 
OF  THE  FIRST  SESSION  OF  THE  FIFTY-NINTH  CONGRESS. 


United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printing, 

August  15,  1906. 
Hon.  T.  C.  Platt, 

Chninaan  Committee  on  Printing, 

,  U.   S.   Senate.^    Washington,  D.    C. 

Sir:  By  your  direction  and  in  pursuance  of  the  provisions  of  Senate 
resolution  No.  175,  tirst  session.  Fifty-ninth  Congress,  wherein  the 
Committee  on  Printing  is  "directed  to  inquire  into  the  reasons  for  the 
delay  in  the  Gov^ernment  Printing  Office  in  sending  to  the  Senate, 
especially  in  the  last  daj'S  of  the  session,  printed  copies  of  bills  and 
joint  resolutions  pending  and  awaiting  action  on  the  part  of  Con- 
gress," I  visited  Washington  and  conducted  as  thorough  an  investiga- 
tion as  was  possible  under  the  terms  of  the  resolution.  Considerable 
testimony  was  taken,  calculated  to  define  the  procedure  of  handling 
bills  and  to  reveal  the  causes  of  the  alleged  delays  of  which  complaint 
had  been  made,  a  transcription  of  which  testimony  is  hereto  annexed. 

Attention  is  respectfull}^  drawn  to  the  character  of  the  resolution 
under  which  the  investigation  has  been  conducted,  which,  ])y  its  fail- 
ure to  empower  3^our  committee  to  summon  witnesses,  places  at  your 
disposal  in  many  cases  second-hand  testimon}^  leading  to  inference 
rather  than  to  proven  fact.  The  absence  of  some  necessary  witnesses 
and  the  disinclination  of  others  to  testify  has  served  in  several  instances 
to  hamper  and  circumscribe  the  action  of  3'our  committee.  Again, 
the  absence  of  provision  for  the  defra3Miient  of  the  expense  of  the 
investigation  will  necessitate  provision  hereafter  for  the  payment  of 
stenographic  and  other  services. 

At  the  risk  of  being  didactic,  the  results  of  this  inc|uirv  will  be  bet- 
ter understood  by  illustrating  at  the  outset  the  processes  involved  in 
the  handling  of  supply  bills  by  Congress;  and  in  the  illustration  of 
these  processes  it  will  be  interesting  to  note  the  frequency  with  which 
the  functions  of  the  Government  Printing  Office  are  exercised  and  the 
respects  in  which  the  work  of  that  office  is  accelerated  or  impeded  by 
the  character  of  the  engrossing  and  enrolling  work  of  Congress. 

It  is  understood  that  an  appropriation  or  supph^  bill  invariably 
originates  in  a  subcommittee  of  a  House  committee.  During  the 
progress  of  consideration  by  the  House  subcommittee  such  ])ills  are 
frequentlv  printed  confidentially  once  or  several  times  for  the  use  of 
the  subcommittee,  and  when  such  a  bill  has  attained  the  form  in  which 
the  subcommittee  determines  finally  to  report  to  the  full  committee, 
the  tentative  measure  is  definitely  though  confidentially  printed  for 
report  to  the  full  committee. 

The  full  committee  ratify  or  amend  the  work  of  the  subcommittee 
and,  taking  the  print  supplied  hy  the  Government  Printing  Office 

3 

227 


4  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

for  this  ])iirpo.se.  report  u  rutiticd  or  anionded  draft  of  the  measure 
to  the  Hou«e  of  Representatives,  which  reported  bill  is  given  a  num- 
ber, and  foUowiiio-  Avhich  the  measure  is  then  printed  for  the  use  of 
Conoress.  When  the  House  of  Representatives  considers  the  measure 
in  Connnittee  of  the  Whole,  the  amendments  of  the  conunittee  and  the 
sporadic  anuMidments  issuing-  from  the  Hoor  having-  ])een  agreed  to  or 
rejected,  as  the  case  may  be,  the  measure  is  passed.  In  the  form  in 
which  it  passes  the  House  it  is  engrossed  l)}^  the  clerical  force  of  the 
House  and  i)rinted  in  engrossed  form  on  blue  ledger  paper,  in  which 
form  it  is  messaged  over  to  the  Senate. 

The  testimony  accompanying  this  report  will  show  that  in  cases  oi 
this  kind  the  clerical  force  of  the  House,  and  the  Government  Print- 
ing Office  as  well,  proceed  with  an  anticipator}^  engrossment  and  prepa- 
ration of  the  measure  with  a  view  to  its  ultimate  expedition;  hence 
when  the  hnal  action  of  the  House  upon  its  bill  is  taken  the  engross- 
ment and  printing  of  the  measure  are  already  tremendously  advanced. 
When  the  measure  is  messaged  to  the  Senate  it  is  again  printed, 
carrying  the  action  of  being  referred  to  the  proper  Senate  committee. 

In  the  Senate  committee  very  much  the  same  procedure  is  followed 
as  has  been  followed  in  the  House.  A  subcommittee  of  the  Senate 
committee  first  considers  the  House  measure,  possibly  requiring  for" 
its  confidential  uses  several  prints  thereof.  The  subcommittee  report 
to  the  full  committee,  who  in  turn  finally  make  their  report  to  the 
Senate,  in  which  form  the  bill  is  again,  officially,  printed  for  the  use 
of  the  Senate,  with  or  without  amendments,  as  reported  by  the  Senate 
committee.  This  is  the  print  showing  certain  matter  lined  out  with 
italicized  additions. 

After  being  passed  by  the  Senate  with  the  committee  and  other 
amendments  the  changes  are  indicated  in  a  separate  print  called  the 
engrossed  amendments  of  the  Senate.  In  the  accomplishment  of  this 
print  the  method  of  anticipation  is  again  practiced  with  great  effect, 
both  by  the  clerical  force  of  the  Senate  and  the  bill  force  of  the  Gov- 
ernment Printing  Office,  to  the  end  that  the  absolute  minimal  time 
may  be  attained  in  making  the  measure  available  for  the  use  of  Con- 
gress. Vv^hen  the  measure  gets  back  to  the  House,  where  it  originated, 
with  the  engrossed  amendments  of  the  Senate,  those  amendments  are 
numbered,  and  wdien  the  measure  with  the  numbered  amendments  is 
referred  to  the  House  the  hill  is  ordered  printed  wnth  the  numbered 
amendments  of  the  Senate  dovetailed  into  the  bill. 

The  measure  in  this  form  is  considered  by  conferees,  who  reach 
fractional  agreement  or  agreement  en  masse,  as  the  case  may  be.  Fre- 
quently several  conferences  are  ordered.  At  this  point  the  enrolling 
clerk  of  the  House  makes  up  the  copj^  for  the  enrolled  bill,  which  is 
then  printed  on  parchment,  and  after  the  same  has  been  signed  b}'  the 
presiding-  officers  of  both  Houses,  and  finally  by  the  President  of  the 
United  States,  it  is  printed  as  a  public  law,  which  is  the  final  disposi- 
tion until  it  is  embodied  in  the  statutes. 

Apropos  of  the  foregoing  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  of  Repve- 
sentatives,  in  written  testimony  contained  in  the  exhibits  accompan3'ing 
this  report,  makes  the  following  statement: 

When  a  bill  passes  both  Houses  it  is  not  ready  by  any  means  to  be  sent  to  the 
President.  The  fact  is  that  the  actual  work  in  perfecting  it  only  begins,  as  it  must 
be  prepared  by  the  enrolling  clerk,  and,  with  the  amendments,  if  any,  sent  to  the 
Printing  Office  (the  distance  between  the  Capitol  and  the  Printing  Ottice  being  great) 


PRINTING    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  5 

for  proof;  returned  to  the  enrolling  clerk,  read,  sent  baek  to  he  returned  on  parch- 
ment for  another  reading  by  the  enrolling  clerk.  If  errors  are  found  on  one  or  more 
sheets,  those  sheets  are  returned  for  correction  and  rejjrinting.  When  the  correc- 
tions are  all  made,  the  parchment,  with  the  original  papers — the  engrossed  copy,  the 
amendments,  and  the  conference  reports — are  all  turned  over  to  the  Committee  on 
Enrolled  Bills,  which  conunittee  rejieat  the  work  of  the  enrolling  clerk  and  his 
assistants.     If  found  correct,  the  bill  is  tlien  taken  to  the  Speaker  of  the  House,  etc. 

At  the  risk  of  repetition,  it  may  be  stated  that  the  enrollino-  clerk 
of  the  House,  in  making  his  enrolhiient,  compiles  his  copy  for  the 
printer  from,  first,  the  desk  copy;  second,  the  blue  print;  third,  the 
engrossed  amendments  of  the  Senate,  and,  finally,  the  conference 
reports,  varying  in  number;  so  that  he  is  practically  making  his  enroll- 
ment from  five  or  more  difl'erent  pieces  of  copy.  In  a  bill  having 
mtuiy  pages  and  many  amendments,  the  work  of  enrollment  is  compli- 
cated and  magnitudinous  in  the  extreme,  and,  considering  the  care 
necessary  to  be  exercised  in  order  that  not  only  the  language  of  the 
bill,  but  every  punctuation  mark  and  capital  letter  as  well,  raa\'  be 
absolutely  accurate,  umch  time  must  necessarily  be  consumed.  In 
emphasis  of  this  point,  it  may  also  be  stated  that,  in  the  preparation 
and  acceptance  of  each  print  of  the  bill,  in  addition  to  the  preparation 
of  copy,  proof  must  be  read,  and  the  work  of  both  the  clerical  forces 
of  Congress  and  the  bill  force  of  the  Government  Printing  Ofhce 
has  to  be  fully  verified. 

In  the  light  of  this  procedure,  let  us  consider  the  two  measures 
leading  to  this  investigation,  namely,  the  general  deficiency  bill  and 
the  public  l)uildings  bill. 

The  criticism  attaching  to  the  general  deficiency  bill  concerns  a 
delay  experienced  by  the  conferees  in  securing  what  is  known  as  the 
numbered  amendment  print  for  consideration,  this  being  the  print 
ordered  b}^  the  House  after  the  bill  has  been  returned  to  the  House  by 
the  Senate  with  the  engrossed  amendments  of  the  latter  dovetailed 
into  the  bill.  Omitting'  the  preliminary  steps  involved  in  the  handling 
of  the  measure,  testimony  attached  will  show  that  the  bill  passed  the 
Senate  late  Thursday  night,  June  28,  190(>. 

A  preliminarv  copy,  contain hig  the  Senate  committee  amendments 
only,  was  sent  to  the  Printing  Office  at  9  o'clock  p.  m.  of  that  day  Iw 
the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate,  who  requested  that  proof  be  sent 
him  on  the  following  morning.  Proof  was  delivered  to  him  on  the 
following  morning  (Frida}^)  at  9.20  o'clock.  Meanwhile  the  enroll- 
ing clerk  of  the  Senate  was  engaged  until  after  midnight  in  compiling 
his  full  copy  of  the  engrossed  amendments.  Upon  receipt  of  the 
aforesaid  partial  proof,  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  vSenate  completed 
his  comparison  of  the  proof  with  the  copy  and  returned  corrected 
proof  to  the  Printing  Office  containing  the  Senate _tloor  amendments  to 
the  bill  (about  twenty  in  all),  at  10  a.  m.  of  the  same  morning  (Friday). 
Proof  of  this  latter  copy  was  returned  to  the  Senate  by  the  Govern- 
ment Printing  Office  at  11.30  a.  m.  for  proper  verification  and  neces- 
sary' correction. 

In  this  shape  the  bill  was  messaged  over  to  the  House  some  time 
after  noon.  The  official  copy  for  the  numbered  amendments,  which  is 
the  form  in  which  the  measure  is  printed  for  the  use  of  the  conferees, 
and  which  is  prepared  by  the  printing  clerk  of  the  House  following 
the  receipt  l)v  the  House  of  the  bill  from  the  Senate  with  the  engj'ossed 
amendments,  was  received  at  the  Government  Printing  Office  at  2.35 


6  FEINTING    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

p.  m.,  same  day,  and  the  completed  bill  delivered  at  the  Capitol  at 
3.25  p.  m.,  or  within  Hfty  mimite.s'  time. 

The  Government  Printing-  Office  anticipated  the  action  on  this  bill 
and.  without  Avaitino-  for  the  ofBcial  copy,  sent  seven  forms  to  press 
before  the  oHicial  copy  reached  the  Printing  Office.  The  other  five 
forms  were  either  on  the  press  or  on  the  way  down  to  the  press  when 
copy  was  received,  and  fifty  minutes  after  the  receipt  of  copy  by  the 
Printing'  Otlice  the  print  desired  by  the  conferees  was  sent  back  to 
Congress.  The  l)ill  contained  96  pages  and  95  amendments.  The 
enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate,  in  his  testimony,  asserts  that  had  the 
proper  clerk  of  the  House  sent  to  the  Printing  Office  earlier  in  the 
clay  the  conferees  might  have  received  the  desired  print  an  hour 
earlier  than  they  actually  did  receive  it. 

The  testimony  of  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate  on  this  point  is 
as  follows: 

Mr.  Howe.  Now,  the  print  of  the  bill  that  Senator  Hale  wanted  to  nse  in  confer- 
ence of  course  could  not  have  been  supplied  to  him  before  it  was  messaged  to  the 
House  and  enrolled  by  the  House? 

Mr.  Platt.  Yes;  it  could  have  been,  because  the  man  who  makes  up  the  bills 
with  the  Senate  amendments  numljered  could  have  gone  to  the  Printing  Othce, 
which  we  have  done  time  and  time  again,  and  have  made  out  his  amendments  there, 
and  then  they  probably  would  have  received  that  bill  at  the  House  some  little  time 
earlier  than  they  did  receive  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  you  think  the  conferees  would  have  gotten  that  print  more 
quickly  if  some  attache  of  the  House  had  taken  the  trouble  to  go  and  get  an  ad\'ance 
copy? 

Mr.  Platt.  Yes.  I  telephoned  to  that  gentleman,  I  think,  in  the  morning,  that  I 
had  the  amendments  ready  and  had  sent  them  back  to  the  Printing  Oflice,  and  I 
presumed  that  he  would  go  down  there,  because  the  night  before  he  asked  me  if  he 
went  down  there  if  it  would  do  any  good  on  that  night.  *  *  *  I  think  there 
may  have  possibly  been  an  hour  lost  there,  Ymt  I  would  not  say  that  for  sure;  but  I 
think  there  was  some  little  time  lost  there. 

With  regard  to  the  public  buildings  bill,  it  should  be  stated  at  the 
outset  that  the  procedure  employed  in  the  handling  of  supply  bills  was 
followed  in  the  consideration  of  that  measure.  The  bill  pussed  the 
House  on  the  Monday  before  adjournment,  June  25,  was  messaged  to 
the  Senate  Tuesday  morning  and  referred  to  the  Senate  Committee  on 
Public  Buildings  and  Grounds,  which  committee  met  on  Wednesday, 
its  regular  meeting  da}",  to  take  it  up.  The  committee  completed  its 
consideration  of  the  measure  Wednesday  night  and  reported  the  same 
to  the  Senate  Thursday  morning  with  approximately  one  hundred  and 
sixty-seven  amendments. 

As  the  measure  was  not  privileged,  its  consideration  by  the  Senate 
during  the  day  (Thursday)  was  considerabl}"  obstructed,  and  it  was  not 
finally  passed  until  late  Thursday  night.  It  was  messaged  to  the  House 
Friday  morning.  The  House  proraptW  disagreed  to  the  amendments 
of  the  Senate  and  asked  for  a  conference,  to  which  the  Senate  assented, 
and  the  conferees  met  at  3  o'clock,  remaining  in  session  until  10  o'clock 
that  night  (Frida}'),  at  which  time  they  reached  a  partial  agreement. 
The  action  of  the  Senate  on  this  fractional  conference  report  was 
prompt,  but  the  House,  owing  to  a  parliamentary  situation,  did  not 
act  until  12  o'clock  midnight. 

From  fourteen  to  twenty  items  remained  in  disagreement,  as  to 
which  the  Plouse  asked  for  a  second  conference,  to  which  the  Senate 
agreed,  which  conference  was  held  at  10  o'clock  Saturday  morning. 
It  was  at  this  point  that  suggestions  of  delav  were  made.  It  is  doubt- 
less true,  and  the  testimony  will  show,  that  if  the  conferees  had  met 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND   JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  7 

after  midnight,  Friday,  instead  of  at  10  o'cloelc  Saturday  nioriiino-, 
two  lioiirs  might  have  been  saved  and  the  final  adjournment  of  Con- 
gress advanced  to  that  extent;  but  the  testimony  additionally  shows 
that  the  conferees  had  been  for  the  two  preceding  nights  engaged  in 
the  discharge  of  Congressional  duty  until  after  midnight  and  were  too 
greatly  exhausted  to  confer  on  this  bill  on  the  night  (if  Friday. 

After  the  final  agreement  of  the  conferees  on  Saturday  morning  at 
10.30  o'clock,  the  clerks  of  the  conference  committee  were  obliged 
to  draft  the  conference  report.  This  work  consumed  two  hours  and 
a  half.  It  was  exacting  work,  invoLving  the  maximum  of  accurac}'. 
Testimony  shows  that  the  clerks  of  the  conference  committee  were 
subjected  to  some  interruption  b}^  Members  of  Congress  during  the 
progress  of  their  compilation  of  the  conference  report,  while  the  final 
check  of  the  report  with  the  committee's  data,  which  was  deemed 
necessar}'  in  the  interest  of  absolute  accuracy,  made  by  the  two  com- 
mittee clerks  with  Senator  Warren  and  Representative  Bartholdt,  con- 
sumed from  a  half  to  three-quarter"s  of  an  hour. 

Some  time  after  the  completion  of  the  work  of  the  clerks  of  the 
conference  committee  the  report  was  submitted  to  the  House — 
approximately  at  1.4.5  p.  m.  A  well-detined  rumor  tended  to  show 
that  dela}^  in  the  submission  of  the  final  conference  report  to  the 
House,  between  the  moment  of  agreement  by  the  conferees  at  10.30 
a.  m.  and  the  moment  of  the  submission  of  the  conference  report  to 
the  House  at  approximately  1.4:5  p.  m.,  was  occasioned  b}"  a  confusion 
in  the  minds  of  those  officials  of  the  House  who  define  the  parliamen- 
tary procedure  of  that  body  as  to  the  right  of  the  House  to  first  sub- 
mit this  second  conference  report,  the  impression  prevailing  that  the 
report  should  first  be  submitted  to  the  Senate. 

This  confusion  appeared  to  have  resulted  in  each  House  waiting  some 
time  for  the  other  House  to  act.  The  written  testimon}^  of  General 
Parkinson,  the  reading  clerk  of  the  Senate,  whose  duties  carried  him 
to  the  House  at  this  time,  will  show  that  upward  of  an  hour  was  lost 
as  a  result  of  this  confusion.  On  this  point  General  Parkinson  testi- 
fies as  follows: 

The  Hou^^e  authorities  labored  under  erroneous  inijiression  that  the  Senate  confer- 
ees should  submit  their  report  first.  At  the  suggestion  of  Mr.  McDonald  and  Mr. 
Piatt,  made  in  the  presence  and  with  the  acquiescence  of,  I  think.  Senator  Hale  or 
some  other  excellent  authority  on  the  matter  of  conference  reports,  I  told  the  House 
people  at  least  twice  that  the  Senate  was  waiting  for  the  House  conferees  to  make 
their  report  first,  which  they  finally  did,  ])ut  after  a  wait  and  delay  of  an  hour  or 
more. 

After  the  submission  in  the  House  of  the  conference  report,  how- 
ever, the  same  was  promptly  messaged  to  the  Senate  and,  with  equal 
promptness,  agreed  to  by  that  body  and  then  entered  the  hands  of  the 
enrolling  clerk  of  the  House,  from  which  he  proceeded  to  prepare  the 
copy  for  the  official  parchment  proof.  It  is  shown  in  the  testimon}' 
that  this  copy  reachecl  the  Government  Printing  Office  at  4:  o'clock  p.  m. , 
Saturday,  June  30,  and  the  printed  copy  (proof)  delivered  to  the  Cap- 
itol, signed  for  by  W.  J.  Browning,  at  5.3."J  p.  m.  It  should  be  stated 
that  the  bill  contained  twenty  pages  and  approximately  one  hundred 
and  sixty-seven  amendments. 

The  enrolling  force  of  the  House,  it  is  assumed,  proceeded  to  read 
this  proof  and  found  errors  therein  requiring  correction.  Testimony 
shows  that  there  were  nine  pages  requiring  to  be  reprinted,  on  two  of 
which  were  errors  attributable  to  the  Government  Printino- Office  and 


8  l'KINTIN(4    OF    lULLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

on  sc\  (Ml  of  which  were  errors  attributal)Io  to  the  enrolling-  office  of 
the  House.  These  pages  were  returned  to  the  Printing  Office  singly 
for  reprinting  as  fast  as  errors  were  disco\'ered.  I'he  fir^it  page 
reached  the  l*rinting  Office  at  6.1(5  p.  ni. 

The  last  one  was  i-eturned  to  the  Capitol  at  T./JT  p.  m.  It  should 
not  he  assumed  that  these  errors  operated  to  dela^y  the  work  of  Con- 
gress, for  the  reason  that  the  act  of  reprinting  the  corrected  i)ages 
was  performed  Avith  such  celerity  by  the  Government  Printing  Office 
that  the  last  corrected  page,  numbered  15,  had  been  i-eturned  by  the 
Government  Printing  Office  before  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House 
had  completed  the  reading  of  the  last  five  pages  of  the  bill;  hence 
"when  the  enrolling  clerk  had  finally  completed  his  comparison  of  the 
bill  all  errors  had  been  rectified  and  a  corrected  print  was  in  his 
possession. 

It  will  be  interesting  to  note  that  in  respect  of  one  page  returned  to 
the  Government  Printing  Office  a  second  time  for  correction  of  an 
error  discovered  latei',  for  which  the  Capitol  was  responsible,  the 
Printing  Office  completed  the  work  of  reprinting  in  exactly  eight 
minutes.  This  final  correction  was  made  in  the  neighborhood  of  !» 
p.  m.,  after  which  the  bill  had  to  be  compared  bv  the  Committee  on 
Enrolled  Bills  before  being  signed  by  the  Speaker  of  the  House,  the 
President  of  the  Senate,  and  the  President  of  the  United  States. 

From  the  foregoing  description  of  the  handling  of  these  two  meas- 
ures, necessarily  lengthy  and  involved,  the  following  facts  and  condi- 
tions prominently  appear: 

As  to  the  work  of  the  Goverment  Printing  Office,  testimony  shows 
that  the  bill  force  is  composed  of  experienced  men,  its  personnel  being 
the  same  as  it  has  ])een  for  years.  Congressional  work  is  invariably 
given  the  preference  over  all  other  work.  The  amount  of  work  per- 
formed by  the  Office  during  the  first  session  of  the  Fifty-ninth  Con- 
gress exceeded  by  approximately  three  times  the  amount  of  work 
performed  at  the  preceding  long  session  and  exceeded  approximately 
by  5  per  cent  the  amount  of  work  performed  during  all  three  sessions 
of  the  Fifty-eighth  Congress.  A  table  appearing  on  page  27  of  the 
testimony  gives  the  details  of  this  work.  The  bill  force  of  the  Print- 
ing Office  during  the  last  session  of  Congress  was  smaller  by  7  men 
than  during  the  previous  Congress. 

The  amount  of  time  consumed  by  the  Printing  Office  in  the  handling 
of  the  two  measures  around  which  criticism  centered  seems  to  have 
been  not  unreasonable,  but  rather  positively  expeditious.  Allegations 
of  witnesses  as  to  delays  on  the  part  of  the  Printing  Office  have  been 
investigated  as  carefully  as  practicable,  and  have  been  found  to  be  too 
general  to  merit  censure.  In  fact,  they  are  in  the  main  trivial  and  in 
some  cases  react  upon  those  making  them.  The  enrolling  clerk  of  the 
House  and  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate,  whose  duties  bring  them 
into  close  relationship  with  the  work  of  the  Printing  Office,  and  who 
would  be  probably  greater  sufi'erers  than  any  others  through  delin- 
quencies on  the  part  of  the  Printing  Office,  pronounce  the  work  of  the 
Government  Printing  Office  during  the  closing  days  of  the  last  session 
as  being  essentially  good.  Mr.  McKenne}^  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the 
House,  thus  characterizes  the  work  of  the  Government  Printing  Office 
and,  incidentally,  his  own: 

The  public  buildingn  l^ill  reached  me  a]>out  2.;50  p.  m.,  June  30, 1  think,  but  I  paid 
no  attention  to  time,  and  it  may  liave  ])een  an  hour  before  or  an  hour  later.     The 


PRINTING    OF    KILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  9 

bill  was  given  immediate  attention,  and  it  was  sent  t<)  the  rrinting  Otlice  as  soon  as 
possible,  was  returned  to  me  for  eomi)arison  with  the  orii^inal  papers  without  unnec- 
essary delay.  Corrections  were  made  on  some  sheets  which  were  sent  tfi  the  I'rinting 
Office  and  corrected  sheets  returned  to  me.  When  I  had  comjileted  reading  the  bill, 
every  sheet  sent  to  the  Printing  Otlice  for  correction  had  been  returned;  thus  showing 
the  elHciency  and  promptness  of  the  1)111  and  messenger  forces  of  the  Printing  Office. 
The  bill  was  then  turned  over  to  the  Committee  on  Eniolled  ]>ills  for  comparison. 
As  every  word,  punctuation  mark,  and  even  cai)ital  letters  are  read  aloud  in  com- 
parison, much  time  is  of  necessity  consumed,  esiiecialiy  in  reading  the  large  sheets 
of  parchment,  each  equal  to  two  sheets  of  an  engrossed  bill.  Then  came  the  l)ill  for 
engro.«sment  and  enrollment  authorizing  the  expenditure  of  money  for  various  iiublic 
buildings,  which  went  through  the  san)e  process  as  every  bill  does  in  engrossment 
and  enrollment.  Tliere  Avas  no  unnecessary  delay  with  either  of  these  bills,  the 
deficiency  bill,  or  other  bills,  at  any  time  during  the  session  of  the  Fifty-ninth  Con- 
gress to  cause  censure  or  even  unfavorable  comment  so  far  as  the  Printing  Office  is 
concerned  with  my  work.  *  *  *  Personally,  I  was  nearly  worn  out.  The  forty- 
eight  hours  preceding  adjournment  I  did  not  have  one  minute's  sleep,  did  not  have 
one  mouthful  to  eat  from  one  breakfast  until  another,  an<l  I  think  the  Printing  Office 
force  suffered  an  equally  strenuous  time.     They  are  heroes,  every  one  of  them. 

Mr.  Piatt,  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate,  thus  characterizes  the 
work  of  the  Printing-office  when  asked  to  state  whether,  as  a  result  of 
his  experience  in  dealing  with  the  Printing  Office,  he  could  allege 
reasonable  alacrity  on  the  part  of  the  Office: 

Yes.  I  have  not  any  hesitation  in  saying  that  I  think  the  Printing  Office,  on  the 
whole,  is  very  exjjeditious,  and,  as  a  geneial  thing,  very  correct.  There  is  occasion- 
ally a  short  delay  sometimes,  when  we  think  there  ought  not  to  be,  and  there  maj' 
be  a  little  fault  to  find  in  the  proof  reading  sometimes,  but  those  things  will  happen 
in  the  best-regulated  families.  You  can  not  help  it.  I  have  never  lost  anything  on 
account  of  delay  in  the  Printing  Office  since  we  commenced  to  enroll  bills  by  jirint- 
ing;  never.  I  have  always  found  that  the  Printing  Office  has  been,  I  think,  equal 
to  the  emergenc)'. 

From  the  practice  of  anticipation  by  the  Government  Printing  Office 
of  the  work  of  Congress  nuich  good  has  been  shown  to  result.  If  the 
Printing  Office  were  to  wait  for  the  receipt  of  copy  from  the  Capitol 
before  setting  up  bill  matter  the  woi'k  of  Congress  would  be  greatly 
prolonged.  An  illustration  of  the  utility  of  this  practice  is  shown  in 
the  handling  of  the  supplemental  bill,  H.  R.  !20511,  making  appropria- 
tions for  certain  public  buildings  authorized  by  the  act  approved  June 
30,  1900,  etc.,  which  act  after  being  messaged  to  the  Senate  was 
passed  at  6.17  p.  ni.  on  Saturday,  June  30. 

The  Printing  Office,  realizing  that  the  Senate  would  in  all  proba- 
bility pass  the  measure  in  the  same  form  in  which  it  pas.sed  the  House, 
proceeded  to  print  the  enrolled  copy  and  sent  the  same  to  the  Senate 
at  5.49  p.  m.,  or  an  hour  and  eight  minutes  before  the  Senate  had  acted 
upon  the  measure.  This,  of  course,  could  only  be  possible  in  respect 
of  a  measure  which  the  Senate  would  in  all  probability  pass  without 
amendment. 

Nothing  has  been  developed  in  the  course  of  this  investigation  which 
would  justify  a  conclusion  that  the  present  administration  of  the  (tov- 
ernment  Printing  Office  is  not  distinctly  ci-editable. 

As  to  the  performances  of  the  enrolling  offices  of  Congress,  it  can 
be  safely  asserted,  without  fear  of  contradiction,  that  considering  the 
magnitude  and  complexity  of  their  work  it  was  performed  with  all 
possible  expedition  consistent  with  exactness.  The  testimony  would 
tend  to  show  that  the  enrolling  force  of  the  House,  upon  which  the 
bulk  of  the  work  of  enrollment  falls,  is  undermanned,  and  that  a 
proper  increase  in  that  force  would  be  promotive  of  greater  celerity 
in  the  performance  of  work  de\'olving  upon  that  office. 


10  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Attention  is  respectfully  called  to  the  fact  that  in  the  transmission 
of  copy,  proof,  and  other  printed  matter  between  the  Capitol  and  the 
Government  Printing  Office,  and  in  some  instances  between  the  Gov- 
ernment Printing  Office  and  the  P^xecutive  Departments,  the  messen- 
ger force  of  the  Government  Printing  Office  is  largely  availed  of. 
This  force  consists  of  a  maximum  of  six  bicycle  messengers — usually 
four.  Congress  should  not  l)e  dependent  upon  this  messenger  force, 
relial)le  and  efficient  as  it  has  been  shown  to  be,  l)ut  should  have  mes- 
sengers attached  to  its  enrolling  offices,  especially  duHng  the  closing 
days  of  the  sessions  of  Congress,  when  the  congestion  of  public  busi- 
ness is  great.  Moreover,  the  efficienc}^  of  the  messenger  force  of  the 
Government  Printing  Office  should  not  be  depleted  b}'  the  calls  of 
the  Executive  Departments. 

I  venture  the  opinion  that  the  inauguration  of  a  time-record  system 
which  would  show  the  pi'ecise  time  of  receipt  and  delivery  of  copj^, 
proof,  etc.,  both  at  the  Capitol  and  the  Go^'ernment  Printing  Office, 
would,  by  the  facility  it  might  alfolxl  in  fixing  responsibilitv  for  delays, 
tend  to  maximum  efficiency  in  work  and  preclude  much  irresponsible 
criticism.  Congress  should  at  least  be  as  well  equipped  for  the  proper 
and  precise  conduct  of  its  business  as  a  commercial  institution.  It  is 
safe  to  assmiie  that  no  commercial  institution  would  for  one  moment 
tolerate  methods  as  irresponsible  as  those  which. now  obtain  in  the 
handling  of  Congressional  bill  work. 

It  may  be  remarked,  in  conclusion,  that  during  the  closing  da3^s  of 
the  first  session  of  the  Fifty-ninth  Congress  there  was  an  unsual  con- 
gestion of  important  legislation,  which  may  have  to  a  degree,  though 
not  unnecessarily,  retarded  the  completion  of  the  work  of  Congress. 
Very  respectfull}^ 

A.  H.  Howe. 


INQUIRY  INTO  THE  CAUSES  OF  DELAY  IN  COMPLETINd  THE  WORK 
OF  THE  FIRST  SESSION  OF  THE  FIFTY-NINTH  CONGRESS. 


Committee  on  Printing, 

United  States  Senate, 
Washington^  D.  C,  July  7,  1906. 

Met  pursuant  to  resolution  dated  June  30,  1906. 

Present:  Mr.  A.  H.  Howe,  representing  the  Committee  on  Printing; 
also  Capt.  H.  T,  Brian,  chief  clerk  Government  Printing  Office; 
Charles  E.  Young,  foreman  of  printing,  Government  Printing  Office; 
T.  Franlv  Morgan,  in  charge  of  bill  work;  D.  V.  Chisholm,  reviser; 
Joseph  Dierken.  clerk  in  the  office  of  the  foreman  of  printing;  Frank 
Cox,  clerk  in  the  office  of  the  foreman  of  printing;  W.  J.  McEvoy, 
compositor;  Frank  M.  Thompson,  compositor;  J.  J.  Kelly,  pressman; 
R.  Waldo  Sandmeyer,  messenger;  John  E.  Welsh,  messenger;  Charles 
W.  Lippold,  messenger;  F.  N.  Perkinson,  messenger;  H.  E.  Charlton, 
messenger;  J.  W.  Bond,  messenger;  William  W.  Home,  assistant 
enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate;  W.  A.  Smith,  and  others. 

Mr.  Howe.  Gentlemen,  the  Committee  on  Printing  is  directed  by 
the  Senate,  in  its  resolution  of  June  30, 190<),  to  incpiire  into  the  reasons 
for  the  delay  in  the  Government  Printing  Office  in  sending  to  the 
Senate,  especiall}^  in  the  last  da3^s  of  the  session,  printed  copies  of 
bills  and  joint  resolutions  pending  and  awaiting  action  on  the  part  of 
Congress. 

There  were  delays  or  suggestions  of  delay  during  the  closing  days 
of  Congress  in  getting  certain  bills  enrolled,  the  particular  sources  of 
irritation  being  the  public  buildings  bill  and,  as  I  understand  it,  the 
urgent  deticiency  biU,  appropriating  money  to  carry  into  eti'ect  the 
provisions  of  the  former  measure,  coupled  with  a  reference  to  a  delay 
experienced  by  the  conferees  on  the  general  deticiency  bill  in  securing 
a  certain  print  of  the  general  deficiency  bill  upon  which  they  were 
anxious  to  work. 

This  committee  is  desirous  of  ascertaining  whether  the  alleged  delays 
are  attributable  to' the  Printing  Office  or  to  other  persons  or  bodies. 
The  object  of  this  inquiry  is  to  ascertain  where  the  blame,  if  any, 
attaches.  In  order  to  get  fixed  in  mind  the  process  that  is  followed  in 
the  passage  of  appropriation  bills,  I  am  going  to  call  on  Mr.  Home, 
the  assistant  enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate,  who  is  the  only  attache  of 
either  the  House  or  Senate  enrolling  forces  who  happens  to  he  in  the 
city.  Mr.  Home,  will  you  describe  briefly  the  process  that  is  followed 
from  the  time  an  appropriation  bill  is  taken  up  by  the  subcommittee 
of  the  House  Committee  on  Appropriations  to  the  time  it  is  finally 
enrolled? 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Howe,  before  doing  that  will  you  allow  me  to 
state  that  the  Public  Printer  is  unable  to  be  present  on  account  of  an 

11 


12  PRINTING    OB'    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

accident  that  continos  liiin  to  hi.s  room.  1  wish  also  to  state  that  he  is 
fully  al)le  and  lias  at  all  times  attended  to  business  and  has  lost  no 
interest  in  it.  The  week  Cono-ress  adjourned,  against  the  protest  of 
his  physician,  he  was  present  each  day,  and  the  day  Congress  did 
adjourn  he  was  present  until  half  past  7  o'clock  in  the  evening. 

^Ir.  HowK.  I  might  also  add  that  I  have  the  assurance  of  the  Public 
Printer  that  he  will  probal)ly  l)e  able  to  l)e  present  early  in  the  w^eek 
at  a  further  hearing,  at  which  time  we  will  have  the  benefit  of  his 
suggestions  regarding  this  matter. 

STATEMENT    OF    WILLIAM    W.    HORNE,    ASSISTANT    ENROLLING 
CLERK  OF  THE  SENATE. 

Mr.  Howe.  Now,  Mr.  Home,  will  you  proceed? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  As  I  understand  it,  on  the  House  side  an  appropria- 
tion bill  is  formulated  in  the  subcommittee.  Then  the  subconnnittee 
makes  a  report  to  the  general  appropriations  committee.  The  work 
of  the  subconnnittee  is  there  ratified,  you  might  say,  and  then  the 
whole  committee  reports  to  the  House.  It  then  goes  upon  the  Calen- 
dar— the  House  Calendar — to  be  called  up  either  immediately  or  at  any 
time  that  might  be  designated  or  fixed.  It  is  called  up.  and,  of  course, 
is  amended.  The  committee  amendments  are  agreed  to  or  i-ejected,  as 
the  case  might  be,  and  then  other  amendments  are  proposed  upon  the 
floor  of  the  House  and  are  agreed  to  or  rejected.  After  the  bill 
passes  the  House  it  goes  in  to  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House,  who 
engrosses  it. 

1  do  not  know  minutely  how  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  pro- 
ceeds in  cases  of  this  kind,  1)ut  I  suppose  it  is  upon  the  same  line  we 
do  here  on  the  Senate  side.  I  judge,  however,  that  he  takes  the  two 
copies  of  the  document  room  bill,  or  the  committee  report — the 
reported  bill — and  cuts  it  up;  that  is,  so  that  the  leaves  will  turn  over,  so 
that  when  it  gets  to  the  Printing  Office  the  printers  can  cut  the  leaves 
apart  into  little  strips  and  distribute  it  around  to  various  typesetters. 
Whenever  an  amendment  is  put  in  he  has  to  interline  it,  and  the  whole 
margin  of  his  bill,  it  is  not  improbable,  will  be  lined  or  covered  with 
little  squibs  or  items  that  have  been  inserted,  and  a  pen  will  have  been 
run  through  a  number  of  lines  where  parts  of  the  bill  have  been 
disagreed  to  in  the  Committee  of  the  Whole  of  the  House.  That  bill 
goes  down  to  the  Printing  Office  and  is  printed  in  that  shape,  and  is 
known  as  the  blueprint.  Then  it  comes  back.  The  enrolling  clerk 
of  the  House  is  then  supposed  to  compare  that  with  his  desk  copy  of  the 
bill  that  conies  out  to  him  from  the  desk.  He  undoul)tedly  compares 
it  and  sees  that  it  is  accurate,  and  then  it  is  attested  b}^  the  Clerk  of 
the  House  and  messaged  over  to  the  Senate.  It  is  then  referred  to 
the  Committee  on  Appropriations,  and  the  Committee  on  Appropria- 
tions will  take  it  up  and  consider  it,  and  make  its  report  to  the  Senate. 
It  then  goes  upon  the  Calendar  of  the  Senate. 

Mr.  Howe.  Let  me  interrupt  you  for  a  moment.  The  Committee 
on  Appropriations  of  the  Senate,  it  is  presumed,  cuts  out  some  matter 
that  appears  in  the  bill  as  it  comes  from  the  House  and  adds  other 
matter. 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Oh,  yes.     They  amend  it,  in  other  words. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  other  words,  they  amend  it.  That  matter  is  lined 
out — that  is,  there  is  a  line  in  the  Senate  print? 


PRINTIISG    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  13 

Mr.  HoHNK.  Yes;  tlie  part  that  is  stricken  out  has  a  line  throutiii  it, 
and  any  new  matter  that  is  put  in  is  in  italics.  Invariably,  you  niitrht 
sa}',  appropriation  l)ills  are  amended,  probably  ranoino-  from  100  to 
250  amendments. 

It  is  reported  to  the  Senate  in  that  wa}-,  and  g-oes  upon  the  Calendar 
upon  any  day,  and  is  put  upon  its  passage  at  some  future  day.  As  a  rule, 
the  committee  amendments  are  taken  up  and  agreed  to  first,  and  after 
they  are  all  disposed  of  then  the  amendments  are  offered  upon  the 
floor.  When  the  bill  finally  passes  the  Senate  with  aujendments  it 
comes  out  to  the  desk  of  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate,  and  these 
amendments  are  engrossed,  not  in  line  with  the  bill  as  it  is  I'eported 
from  the  committee,  but  the  amendments  that  appear  in  the  bill  as  it  is 
reported  from  the  committee  are  put  in  their  proper  places  with 
respect  to  the  blueprint  copy.  For  instance,  the  lines  and  pages  of 
the  committee's  reported  l)ill  would  not  tally  with  the  ])lueprint  copy 
of  the  House  bill.  So  the  eni'olling  clerk  has  to  figure  out  just  where 
the  amendments  are  to  go  in  the  blueprint. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Let  me  interrupt  you  again.  I  would  like  to  have  you 
make  clear  what  you  mean  by  the  ])lueprint. 

Mr.  HoKXE.  The  blueprint  is  what  we  call  the  official  copy,  or  the 
copy  of  the  official  copy.  The  official  copy  is  attested  b}'  the  Clerk  of 
the  House,  and  the  l)lueprint  is  a  duplicate  of  that. 

jNIr.  Howe.  It  is  a  bill  printed  on  blue  paper,  in  other  words? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Yes;  there  is  one  right  there  in  that  gentleman's  hands. 

Mr.  Young.  I  have  one  here,  Mr.  Howe,  if  3'ou  wish  to  see  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  No;  I  do  not  care  to  see  it  now. 

]\lr.  HoRNE.  The  enrolling  clerk  now  enrolls  these  amendments. 
The  official  form  of  it  is;  ''In  the  Senate  of  the  United  States,"  (blank 
date) — supplying  the  date,  of  course — '^ Btsolfcd^  That  the  bill  from 
the  House  of  Representatives,  H.  R.  (blank  number),  entitled  'An  Act 
making  appropriations,  etc.,'  be  passed  with  the  following  amend- 
ments." Then  these  amendments  are  all  numbered.  There  might  be 
anywhere  from  100  to  250  of  them  in  a  big  appropriation  bill.  They 
are  all  numbered  1,  2,  3,  4,  consecutively,  and  each  amendment  has  a 
number.  We  send  these  amendments  down  to  the  Printing  Office  and 
get  Ijack  a  proof.  We  compare  the  proof  and  correct  it  and  make 
such  changes  as  may  be  necessary  or  supply  any  omissions  that  may 
be  necessary  and  send  the  proofs  back  to  be  engrossed.  Then  it  is 
engrossed  upon  smooth  white  paper.  I  do  not  know  what  the  name 
of  the  paper  is.     Probably  3'ou  might  tell  me  the  name  of  it? 

Mr.  Young.  It  is  white  writing  paper. 

Mr.  HoRNE.  It  is  white  writing  paper;  yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  is  the  same  as  the  blueprint,  is  it  not,  except  that  it 
is  white? 

Mr.  HoRNE.   Yes;  it  corresponds  to  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  it  not  identical  with  the  blueprint? 

]Mr.  HoRNE.  It  has  the  same  relative  standing  in  the  two  Houses. 
Ours  is  a  white  copy  and  theirs  is  l)lue.  AVhen  that  proof  comes  back 
to  us,  and  we  compare  it  and  make  the  proper  changes  and  corrections, 
we  send  it  down  to  be  put  upon  white  paper  in  its  engrossed  form. 
That  is  attested  by  the  Secretary  and  accompanies  the  original  official 
blueprint  copy  of  the  House  that  was  messaged  over  in  the  first 
instance.  Upon  the  back  of  the  original  bill  is  stamped  '''"Resolved., 
That  this  bill  pass  with  amendments.     Attest,  Secretarj'." 


14  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

That  i.-^  messaged  over  to  the  House  and  then,  as  far  as  my  infor- 
mation goes,  those  amendments  are  taken  b}'  the  tile  clerk  of  the 
House^ — the  lileand  bill  clerk  of  the  House — and  prepared  for  another 
print;  that  is  known  as  the  House  bill  printed  with  Senate  amend- 
ments num])ered.  That  goes  down  to  the  Public  Printer  to  be 
pi'inted  for  the  use  of  the  committee  and  for  the  conferees,  showing 
exactly  where  each  amendment  comes  in  the  bill  and  giving  the  num- 
ber of  each  amendment.  When  that  is  done  the  l)ill  goes  into  confer- 
ence, as  a  rule,  and  the  conferees  have  this  printed  l)ill  with  Senate 
amendments  numbered  before  them,  probably  for  the  convenience  of 
the  conferees  in  disagreeing  or  in  accepting  the  various  an)endments. 
When  it  comes  out  of  conference  it  is  reported  to  the  Senate  and 
reported  to  the  two  Houses.  The  conference  report  is  agreed  to — I 
take  it  it  is  not  necessary  for  me  to  go  through  the  preliminar}-  of 
inviting  conference  and  rejecting  it,  etc.  ? 

Mr.  Howe.  No. 

Mr.  HoRNE.  When  it  gets  out  of  conference  agreed  to  then  the  bill 
goes  in  to  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House.  I  might  say  here  that  in 
the  closing  hours  of  Congress,  espeeiall}^  with  these  large  bills,  it  is 
my  understanding  that  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  anticipates  the 
passage  of  the  bills  with  the  amendments,  and  usually  prepares  his 
bill  with  all  his  amendments  in  it,  and  sends  it  down  to  the  Printing 
Office  and  has  the  proof  sent  back  to  him,  so  that  when  the  conference 
report  comes  in  to  him  and  he  compares  the  bill  with  the  conference 
report,  such  matter  as  was  agreed  to  he  will  leave  in,  and  such  matter  as 
was  disagreed  to  or  rejected  he  will  strike  out.  Then  he  can  send  his 
proof  down  to  the  Printing  Office,  and  they  have  the  type  all  standing, 
and  they  just  take  out  such  matter  as  was  disagreed  to  in  the  confer- 
ence and  put  in  such  new  matter  as  might  have  been  added. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  in  the  interest  of  expedition  at  the  Printing 
Office? 

Mr.  HoRXE.  Oh,  yes,  undoubtedly  so;  and  it  is  ver}-  well,  too.  The 
enrolling  clerk  and  the  Printing  Office  both  would  undoubtedly  be  left 
in  the  lurch  if  this  was  not  done.     That  covers  about  the  whole 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Howe,  may  I  ask  Mr.  Home  if  he  will  not  add 
just  after  he  says  that  the  blueprint  is  presented  to  the  Senate  that 
there  is  then  a  print  of  the  bill  for  the  Senate  in  addition  to  that? 

Mr.  HoRXE.  Oh,  yes;  that  is  a  document-room  cop3^  It  is  a  com- 
mon-paper print. 

Captain  Brian.  That  statement  is  necessar}^  to  make  the  history  of 
the  printing  complete. 

Mr.  HoKXE.  Yes;  that  is  very  true. 

Captain  Brian.  And  I  would  like  to  ask  if  }  ou  will  not  state  that 
the  blueprint,  when  it  comes  to  the  Senate,  is  the  official  copy  of  the 
bill? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Oh,  3'es;  it  is.  There  is  only  one  official  copy — that 
is,  the  one  we  sign. 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  the  only  one  that  goes  to  the  Senate? 

Mr.  HoRXE.  The  other  is  a  copy  of  the  official  co\jy. 

Captain  Brian.  The  other  copies  are  for  the  use  of  the  clerk.  The 
blueprint  that  comes  to  the  Senate  is  the  official  copy. 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Yes;  undoubtedly. 

Captain  Brian.  And,  further,  that  the  white  copy  containing  the 
engrossed  Senate  amendments  is  the  official  copy 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  15 

Ml".  HoHNE.  For  the  House;  yes. 

Oiptain  Brian.  The  official  copy  that  the  Senate  sends  to  the  House? 

Mr.  HoRXE.  The  official  copy  that  the  Senate  sends  to  the  House; 
yes,  sir. 

]Mr.  Howe.  This  procedure,  then,  was.  of  course,  followed  in  the 
treatment  or  handling  of  these  two  measures 

Mr.  HoRNE.   Undoubtedly. 

Mr.  Howe.   Which  invited  criticism?  ' 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  Speaking  for  the  enrolling  office  of  the  Senate,  was 
there  any  delay  in  the  handling  of  those  two  measures^ 

Mr.  HoRNE.  None  that  I  heard  any  complaint  of. 

Mr.  Howe.  Can  you  recall  when  the  two  measures  reached  your 
desk? 

Mr.  HoRXE.  Well,  about.  The  public  buildings  bill  passed  the  Sen- 
ate on  the  night  of  Thursday,  June  28— my  recollection  is  about  8 
o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  Having  already  passed  the  House? 

Mr.  HoRXE.  Oh.  certainly. 

Captain  Briax.  Do  you  mean  the  public  buildings  bill,  H.  R.  20410? 

]\Ir.  HoRXE.  I  do  not  mean  the  supplemental  bill.  Is  that  the  sup- 
plemental bill  ( 

Captain  Brian.  No.  I  think  not. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  the  public  buildings  bilH 

Mr.  Horxe.  Yes;  H.  R.  20410.  That  came  out  to  our  desk  from 
the  desk  in  the  Senate  about  8  o'clock  on  Thursday  night.  June  28. 

]Mr.  Howe.  With  many  amendments? 

Mr.  Horxe.  Yes.  1  have  forgotten  how  many,  but.  roughly  speak- 
ing, there  were  probably  200  some  odd.  We  had  these  amendments 
anticipated — that  is,  the  committee  amendments  that  came  in  from  the 
reported  bill  in  italics.  We  had  anticipated  these  amendments  being 
agreed  to  just  as  I  have  explained  that  probably  the  enrolling  clerk  of 
the  House  anticipates  the  passage  of  the  bill  with  amendments.  As  to 
the  other  amendments  that  were  added,  or  amendments  that  were  dis- 
agreed to  upon  the  floor,  we  took  our  proof  copy  and  made  the  neces- 
sary' corrections  in  it,  and  returned  it  to  the  Public  Printing  Office  for 
its  engrossment.  W^e  sent  it  down  to  he  engrossed  on  the  night  of  its 
passage,  June  28,  and  it  came  back  to  us  in  engrossed  form  the  follow- 
ing morning,  Saturday,  and  the  bill  with  the  accompanying  amend- 
ments was  messaged  over  to  the  House  between  11  and  12  o'clock  on 
Saturdav. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  say  the  bill  reached  your  desk  when? 

Mr.  Horxe.  About  S  o'clock  on  the  evening  of  the  28th.  Thursday. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  it  came  back  to  you  in  engrossed  form 

Mr.  Horxe.  No,  no.  1  have  got  the  date  wrong.  It  came  back 
next  morning  in  engrossed  form. 

Mr.  Howe.  Was  that  an  unusual  length  of  time? 

Mr.  Horne.  Oh,  no. 

Captain  Brian.  Was  that  Friday  morning  or  Saturday? 

Mr.  Horne.  Where  I  said  Saturday  there  make  it  Friday.  I  wrote 
it  wrong  in  my  memorandum.  It  was  the  next  day,  and  of  course  the 
general  deficiency  bill  was  passed  the  same  night  that  the  public  build- 
ings bill  passed;   about  10  o'clock,  I  should  judge. 


16  PRINTIN(4    OF    HILLS    AND    .JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

yiv.  HowK.  That  is  not  the  deticiencv  l)ill  tliut  appropriuted  money 
to  c'iUTv  out  the  provisions  of  the  public  buildings  bill^ 

Mr.  IIoRNK.  Oh.  no. 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  H.  K.  20403. 

Mr.  HoRXE.  It  passed  the  same  night.  Our  amendments  were 
engrossed  and  the  bill  was  messaged  over  to  the  House  the  next  day 
between  1  and  2  o'clock.  Neither  was  that  an  extravagant  waste  of 
time. 

Mr.  Howe.  Let  me  ask  you  as  to  these  anticipations  you  speak  of. 
That  is  where  you  anticipate  amendments? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  How  do  you  arrive  at  these  anticipations!'  Do  you 
secure  information  in  advance  from  the  committee? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Well,  only  to  this  extent:  AA'hen  the  committee  reports 
an  appropriation  bill  to  the  Senate  it  is  reported  with  amendments, 
and  these  amendments  are  all  put  in  italics.  That  indicates  to  us  that 
they  are  amendments  and  we  anticipate  the  Senate  agreeing  to  these 
committee  amendments  in  italics.  This  matter  that  is  printed  in  ital- 
ics in  the  bill  of  course  is  not  in  the  bill  as  it  comes  from  the  House. 
The  Senate  puts  that  in  in  committee  and  it  has  been  our  experience 
that  the  Senate  very  readily  agreed  to  the  majority'  of  the  Senate 
amendments  as  the  Senate  reports  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  other  words,  it  is  more  expeditious  for  the  Printing 
Office  to  cut  out  the  rejected  matter  than  it  would  be  to  reset  the  bill? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Than  it  would  be  to  reset  the  whole  thing. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  there  were  no  delays  so  far  as  3-our  office  was 
concerned  in  the  matter  of  enrolling  these  two  measures? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  I  think  not,  sir;  at  least,  I  have  heard  no  complaint. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  know  of  no  criticism  that  has  been  directed  against 
your  office  ? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  None  whatever. 

Mr.  Howe.  Generally  speaking,  what  has  been  your  experience  in 
the  matter  of  getting  back  from  the  Printing  Office  printed  matter 
sent  from  your  desk? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Well,  that  varies.  There  has  been  complaint  in  get- 
ting the  work  back  from  the  Printing  Office.  Some  days  there  was 
absolutely  no  ground  for  complaint. 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  these  complaints  appertain  to  the  more  important 
bills,  such  as  the  ones  under  consideration,  or  has  your  experience 
been  that  the  Printing  Office 

Mr.  HoRNE.  These  important  bills,  and  especially  these  under  con- 
sideration, appropriation  bills,  are  House  bills,  and  we  have  no  cog- 
nizance of  them  when  the}'  come  up  in  the  engrossed  or  enrolled  form. 
That  is  left  entirely  with  the  House  enrolling  clerks,  and  I  can  not 
speak  about  the  delays  so  far  as  the  House  is  concerned.  We  have 
suHered  some  delays  in  Senate  bills  l)v  reason  of  the  fact  that  we  have 
discovered  errors  in  the  proof  reading,  and  would  have  to  send  a  sheet 
back  to  be  corrected.     That  would  necessitate  some  delay. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  that  of  frequent  occurrence? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  I  will  not  sav  it  is  a  frequent  occurrence.  I  will  say 
it  has  appeared  to  us  to  have  been  more  frequent  than  in  the  past  few 
years. 

Mr.  Howe.  More  frequent  during  the  recent  session  than  in  previous 
sessions? 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIuNS.  17 

Mr.  HoRNK.   Yes. 

Captain  Bkian.  Would  it  interrupt  if  I  asked  Mr.  Home  to  make  it 
clear  whetiier  these  errors  are  in  the  proof  that  is  submitted  or  in  the 
printed  copies'^ 

Mr.  HoRNK.  That  is,  whether  the  error  was  on  the  part  of  tiie  Print- 
ing Ofhce  or  on  the  part  of  the  enrolling-  clerk? 

Captain  Brian.   Well,  the  errors  3'ou  speak  of,  please. 
•     Mr.  HoRNE.  That  is  the  kind  of  error  I  was  speaking  of. 

Mr.  Howe.  Were  they  errors  in  the  printed  copies,  in  tiie  final 
print,  or  in  the  proof? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Captain  Brian  means  was  it  the  copy  that  was  y^repared 
by  the  office  here  and  sent  down 

Captain  Brian.  No,  excuse  mo.  1  mean  whether  it  was  the  proof 
that  was  submitted  by  the  Printing  Office,  or  the  printed  copies  fur- 
nished by  the  Printing  Office. 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Sometimes  we  ask  for  proof,  Captain,  and  other  times 
we  do  not.  Sometimes  we  mark  on  the  cop3^  "Send  proof;""  and 
sometimes  we  have  discovered  the  error  in  the  proof,  and  at  other 
times  we  have  discovered  the  error  in  the  official  copies. 

Captain  Brian.  May  I  ask  further,  when  you  discovered  the  error 
in  the  printed  copy  was  that  when  you  did  not  have  proof? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Well,  we  have  discovered  errors  when  we  did  not  have 
proof,  and  we  have  discovered  errors  when  we  did  have  proof. 

Captain  Brian.  In  the  printed  copies? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Yes,  sir. 

Captain  Brian.  One  thing  more.  Do  not  the  regulations  require 
you  to  have  proof,  and  to  read  the  proof  before  the  final  print,  to  as- 
certain if  there  are  errors? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  I  do  not  think  so.  If  that  is  a  rule  of  the  Senate  it 
has  never  been  called  to  my  attention. 

Captain  Brian.  May  I  submit  the  rules  later,  ]Mr.  Howe? 

Mr.  Howe.  Certainly.  Mr.  Home,  in  cases  where  you  discover 
errors,  where  you  have  received  proof,  would  it  not  follow  that  the 
error  possibly  attached  to  your  office  in  sending  back  uncorrected 
proof  rather  than  that  the  Printing  Office  erred  in  printing  from  the 
proof  that  3^011  sent  over? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  I  do  not  exactly  catch  3^our  question. 

Mr.  Howe.  Well,  for  instance,  3^ou  send  copy  to  the  Printing  Office 
and  ask  for  proof. 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Y^es. 

Mr.  Howe.  They  send  the  proof  back  to  you  and  you  presumablv 
read  it. 

Mr.  HoRNE.   We  do  read  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  if  you  find  corrections  necessarv  3"ou  note  the  cor- 
rections on  it. 

Mr.  HoRNE.'  Yes,  on  the  margin. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  send  it  back? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Y^es. 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  you  find  that  the  Printing  Office  disregards  vour 
corrections  ? 

Mr.  Horne.  Oh,  b3'  no  means;  oh,  no.  If  we  correct  the  proof 
thev  will  send  back  a  corrected  cop3'. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  what 


18  PRIXTINO    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  HonNK.  Tlio  cause  fortius  ])voof  coming  up  with  the  error  in 
it.  1  suppose,  is  due  to  faulty  proof  rcudino-  in  the  Pulilic  Pi"intino- 
OHice. 

Mr.  lIowK.  Of  course  tiie  vei'v  ol)ject  of  asking  for  proof  is  to 
insure  accurac}'. 

Mr.  lIoKNE.  Yes:  but,  for  instance,  the  Senate  ma}  pass  two  or 
three  hundred  pension  bills.  We  no  not  ask  for  proof  on  those  bills. 
We  have  them  put  upon  parchment  in  the  first  instance. 

Captain  Brian.  May  1  ask  a  (question!' 

Mr.  Howe.   Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  Then  do  you  not  use  that  parchment  cop,y  as  proof? 
You  rea<l  it  to  see  if  it  is  correct? 

Mr.  lIoKNE.  Oh,  3'es;  we  read  it  to  see  if  it  is  coriect.  If  it  is  not 
correct  we  destroy  it  and  call  for  another. 

Captain  Brian.  You  use  the  parchment  copy  as  the  proof  that  you 
ought  to  have  had  in  the  tirst  place? 

Air.  IloKNE.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  those  cases  where  you  use  the  parchment  copy  as 
proof,  do  you  find  errors  frequently  or  infrequently? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Not  in  })ension  ))ills.  The  errors  are  very  infrequent. 
The  pension  bills  are  usually  veiT  accurate. 

Captain  Brian.  May  I  ask  if  you  frequently  find  errors  in  any 
bill,  pension  or  any  other  kind? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  I  would  not  say  frequently,  no.  My  tirst  statement  was 
that  the  errors  seem  to  have  been  more  prevalent  this  year  than  in 
past  years,  since  I  have  had  any  connection  with  the  office. 

Mr.  Howe.  NoticeabW  so? 

JNlr.  HoRNE.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  And  those  errors  were  the  fault  of  the  Printing- 
office  and  not  the  fault  of  the  copy,  Mr.  Home? 

Mr.  Horxe.  Yes,  sir.  When  the  copy  would  not  be  returned  with 
the  parchment  copy,  as  has  often  been  the  case,  we  have  called  on  the 
Public  Printing-  Office  to  return  the  copy  in  order  that  we  might  ,'!ee 
whether  or  not  it  was  our  mistake  or  a  Pi'inting  Office  mistake,  and  I 
do  not  recall  a  single  instance  where  we  found  the  mistake  was  made 
in  sending  the  cop}^  down. 

Mr.  Howe.  Can  yon  now  or  later  cite  some  concrete  instances 
where  these  eri'ors  have  occurred,  in  order  that  they  may  be  traced^ 

Mr.  HoRNE.  I  can  not  do  it  for  this  reason:  We  send  down  such  a 
bulk  of  copy  during  the  entire  session  that  there  is  nothing  for  us  to 
do  when  we  compare  it  and  satisfy  ourselves  that  it  is  finally  correct 
but  to  destroy  the  cop3^  There  is  no  occasion  for  keeping  it,  and  we 
do  not  keep  it.     Otherwise  I  could,  of  course. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  cases  of  that  kind,  is  it  your  practice  to  call  the  atten- 
tion of  the  officials  of  the  Printing  Office  to  these  errors  in  order  that 
they  may  be  corrected? 

Air.  Hokne.  Only  to  the  extent  of,  returning  it  with  a  marginal 
note  that  there  exists  an  ei'ror,  and  the  proof  reader  can  see  for  him- 
self without  calling  it  specifically  to  his  attention. 

Mr.  Howe.  Would  you  say  that  the  errors  appertain  to  the  proof- 
reading foi'ce  of  the  office  rather  than  to  the  force  of  compositors? 

Mr.  Hokne.  I  think  that  is  undoubtedly  true.  Where  copy  is  sent 
up  to  us  with  an  error  in  it,  it  having  been  supposed  to  have  been 


PRINTING    OK    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  19 

read  before  it  eiiiiie  to"  u,s  hy  a  proof  reader  in  the  Public  Priiitintif 
Office.  I  should  say  un(|uestioual)ly  the  blame  was  on  the  jiroof  reader. 

Captain  Bhiax.  Do  you  know  of  a  case  where  a  t)ill  had  l)een  read, 
where  the  par<-hinent  bopy  has  been  used  for  proof,  and  where  you 
found  errors  after  that^ 

Mr.  HoKNE.  You  mean,  Captain,  after  we  had  <lisco\er('(l  one  error 
and  sent  it  down,  and  had  it  returned  to  us^ 

Captain  Brian.   Yes. 

Mr.  HoKNE.   No. 

Captain  Bhiax.  I  mean,  usino-  the  parchment  copy  as  proof  in  the 
tirst  place. 

Mr.  lIoKNE.  And  discovei'ino-  an  error  in  it  and  then  sending  it 
back  to  be  corrected  ' 

Captain  Brian.  Yes:  whether  yon  found  an  error  after  that,  in  any 
case  ( 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Not  on  the  second  print  of  the  cop}". 

Captain  Brian.  All  the  errors  you  found  were  in  the  proof:' 

Mr.  HoRXK.   Yes,  sir. 

Captain  Buiax.  And  none  in  the  printed  l)ills.  \Ve  call  that  tirst 
print  on  parchment  a  proof. 

Mr.  HoRXE.  When  we  send  down  a  bill  and  ask  that  it  be  put  on 
parchment  we  do  not  regard  that  as  a  proof. 

Mr.  Howe.  But  you  say  you  do  look  over  the  parchment  copy 
afterwards^ 

^\v:  Horxe.   Every  one  of  them. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  go  over  it  as  you  would  a  proof,  and  if  you  tind 
an  error  you  return  it  for  correction ' 

Mr.  HoRXE.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  That  becomes  a  proof  copy. 

Mr.  Howe.  ^Vould  it  not  follow,  if  your  otiice  called  for  proof  in 
every  instance,  and  read  it  and  cori'ected  it  if  necessary,  that  you 
would  receive  back  from  the  Printing  Office  finally  absolutely  or  prac- 
tically correct  prints^ 

^Ir.  HoRXE.  Oh,  yes,  jes.  ^Vhen  we  want  a  proof  of  a  bill  we  note 
on  it  "'Send  proof."  The  public  Printing  Oftice  does  not  send  back 
this  parchment  copy  to  us. 

Mr.  Howe.  1  understand 

Mr.  HoRN'E.  We  should  not  regard  a  parchment  copy  as  being  a 
proof  copy.  If  we  wanted  to  we  would  write  the  word  ""  parchment'" 
across  it  when  we  do  not  want  a  proof.  We  do  that  for  the  sake  of 
expediting  the  bills.  A  Senator  niight  want  a  bill  gotten  to  the 
White  House  that  day,  and  we  would  hardly  have  time  to  ask  for  a 
proof  first  and  then  send  it  down  and  have  it  put  on  parchment  for 
the  second  printing. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  this  little  complaint  you  make  about  the  Printing- 
Office.  1  would  like  to  have  you  say  whether  the  cases  are  so  frequent 
as  to  be  flagrant  or 

Mr.  lIoKXE.   No,  1  would  not  regard  it  so. 

Mr.  Howe.  Or  whether,  generally  s]ieaking.  the  service  is  good? 

Mr.  Horxe.  Generally  speaking,  it  is  good. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  is  unfortunate  that  some  of  the  enrolling  force  of  the 
House  are  not  here. 

Captain  Briax.  I  should  like  very  much  to  have  ^Ir.  ]McKenney, 
Mr.  Howe. 


20  PKINTINC;    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

]Mr.  IIouxK.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  none  of  the  trouble  seems  to  exist 
on  this  side  of  the  huikling-. 

Captain  Bkian.  I  Avas  goin<>"  to  ask  if  Mr.  Home  would  not  sa}'  that 
all  of  the  large  ap})ropriation  bills  are  House  bills*  and  that  all  of  the 
enrolling"  is  done  by  the  House. 

Mr.  HoHNE.  Yes;  all  House  bills  are  engrossed  in  the  House,  of 
course,  and  the  api)ropriation  bills  are  House  measures. 

Captain  Brian.  1  will  ask  Mr.  Home  if  he  will  not  explain  how  the 
enrolled  copy  is  gotten  up?  What  does  the  clerk  have  before  him  to 
make  that  enrolled  copy  up  for  the  printer? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  A  House  or  a  Senate  bill? 

Captain  Brian.  A  House  bill. 

]Mr.  HoRNE.  I  never  enrolled  a  House  t)ill,  but  1  presume 

Captain  Brian.  He  has  first  of  all  the  desk  copy '. 

Mr.  HoRNE.  The  desk  copy  to  make  his  copy  from. 

Captain  Brian.  And  the  blueprint? 

Mr.  HoRNE.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  Which  is  the  official  copy? 

]Mr.  Horne.  No;  he  would  not  have  the  blueprint.  Y"ou  onl}-  have 
the  blueprint  after  the  bill  passes. 

Captain  Brian.  The  enrolled  copy  is  after  the  bill  passes. 

Mr.  Horne.  I  thought  you  meant  the  engrossed  copy. 

Captain  Brian.  He  tirst  has  the  desk  copy,  and  then  he  has  the  blue- 
print? 

Mr.  Horne.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  And  the  engrossed  amendments  of  the  Senate^ 

Mr.  Horne.  Y'^es. 

Captain  Brian.  And  the  conference  report  or  two  or  three  con- 
ference reports,  if  there  have  been  so  man}'  ? 

Mr.  Horne.  Yes.  As  1  stated,  however,  at  the  outset,  I  do  not 
know  exactly  how  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  would  prepare 
that  bill.  But  rather  than  in  the  way  you  suggest  I  would  presume 
that  he  had  the  House  bill  print  with  the  Senate  amendments  num- 
bered— that  copy. 

Captain  Brian.   Yes. 

Mr.  Horne.  So  that  would  obviate  the  necessity  of  his  having  to 
paste  in  these  various  Senate  amendments  and  he  could  just  strike  out, 
probal)ly. 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  what  he  uses  for  preparing  the  cop}'  ? 

Mr.  Horne.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  He  also  has  the  conference  report? 

Mr.  Horne.  He  has  the  conference  report.  I  do  not  think  he 
would  use  the  blueprint  as  you  suggested. 

Captain  Brian.  Would  he  not  have  to  use  the  bluepi'int,  because 
the  conference  report  refers  to  lines  and  sections,  and  pages  in  the 
blueprint '. 

Mr.  Horne.  Y^es;  yes,  he  would. 

Captain  Brian.  He  would  have  to  use  that  to  pick  it  out  of? 

Mr.  Horne.  Y"es. 

Captain  Brian.  So  that  he  is  practically  making  up  his  report  from 
live  different  pieces  of  cop}'  ? 

Mr.  Horne.  Yes,  sir. 

Captain  Brian.  You  said  a  while  ago  that  you  had  heard  some  com- 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  21 

plaint.s  {n)out  oiirollod  ])ills.  as  to  the  time  it  has  taken  the  Printing 
Office.     Was  that  principally  as  to  House  bills;' 

Mr.  HoRXE.  If  you  speak  of  the  appropriation  l)ills,  of  course  they 
were;  but  I  never  heard  any  complaint  about  the  general  routine 
business  down  there,  except  upon  Senate  bills,  if  we  heard  any  at  all. 

Captain  Brian.  You  said  there  was  some  complaint  about  enrolled 
bills  coming-  from  the  Printing  Office  on  the  last  day.  What  I  want  to 
ask  is  whether  you  have  any  means  of  knowing  how  long  that  cop3' 
had  been  at  the  Printing  Office,  or  whether  it  had  reached  there  or  not 
when  they  were  calling  for  it  ( 

Mr.  Horne.  I  fiever  said  anj'thing  about  complaints  of  bills  in  the 
last  few  days,  I  don't  think. 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  what  I  understood,  that  you  said  there  had 
been  some  complaint. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  did  not  understand  it  that  wav,  Captain  Brian. 

Captain  Brian.  Then  I  withdraw  that. 

]Mr.  HoRNE.  You  are  under  a  misapprehension  entirely. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  should  like  to  ask  a  question  of  Mr.  Victor  L.  Rick- 
etts.  clerk  of  the  House  Committee  on  Printing,  who  has  had  gxperi- 
ence  in  printing. 

STATEMENT  OF  VICTOR  L.  BICKETTS,  CLERK  OF  THE  HOUSE 
COMMITTEE  ON  PRINTING. 

]Mr.  Howe.  ]Mr.  Ricketts.  what  is  the  practice  in  private  printing 
establishments  in  the  matter  of  furnishing  proofs  Do  they  furnish 
proof  on  request,  or  do  the}'  invariably  furnish  proof  whether  it  is 
requested  or  not  ? 

Mr.  Ricketts.  I  would  say  that  ever}-  private  printer  in  handling 
matters  of  any  importance  whatever,  if  he  were  a  prudent  man.  would 
insist  upon  submitting  proof  to  bis  customer.  He  would  insist  on  the 
customer  returning  to  his  office  what  he  would  call  an  O.  K.'d  or 
approved  proof,  which  the  printer  would  retain  in  his  office  for  a 
reasonable  length  of  time  at  least  for  his  own  protection  against  any 
charges  of  inaccuracy  or  negligence  that  might  be  made  against  him 
or  his  office  in  the  future  from  his  customer.  So  1  would  say  that  the 
private  printer  feels  that  where  he  has  submitted  proof  and  that  proof 
has  been  returned  to  him  and  errors  are  subsequently  discovered  in 
the  work  the  responsibility  for  such  errors  would  be  determined  by 
those  finally  approved  proofs. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  I  see.  Mr.  Horne.  would  you  regard  it  as  practical  to 
receive  proof  from  the  Printing  Office  on  all  bills  that  you  send  over, 
or  on  all  copy  that  vou  send  over!' 

Mr.  Horne.  No,  sir;  I  would  not,  for  this  reason — when  you  sa}' 
"all."' that  means  all. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  means  all. 

Mr.  Horne.  It  is  often  the  case  that  a  Senator  will  be  verv  much 
interested  in  a  ))ill.  and  he  will  come  in  and  will  want  it  to  go  to  the 
President  that  night  for  signature.  Of  course,  we  want  to  obviate 
any  delay,  and  that  would  necessarily  result  by  sending  the  bill  back 
twice  to  be  printed.  So  we  do  not  require  that  a  proof  l)e  sent  here 
in  instances  of  that  kind,  but  just  the  parchment  copy. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  the  errors  to  which  3'ou  alluded  are  not  so  fre- 
quent or  momentous  as  to  justify  your  receiving  a  proof  in  all  cases? 


22  PKfNTrNO    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    KESOLUTIONS. 

]Mi'.  IIoHNK.   Oh.  no;   1  think  not. 

Mr.  IIowK.  The  loss  of  time  would  be  more  serious  thun  the  few 
errors  that  you  hii\e  founds 

Mr.  MoiJNK.    I  think  so. 

Mr.  IIowK.  Well,  1  think  that  is  all.  Mr.  Home.  Do  3'ou  wish  to 
ask  Mr.  Ilorne  any  (juestions.  Ca|)tain  Brians 

Captain  Brian.  Nothing-  more,  sir. 

STATEMENT  OF  CAPT.  H.  T.  BRIAN,  CHIEF  CLERK  GOVERNMENT 

PRINTING  OFFICE. 

]Mr.  MowK.  Captain  Brian.  I  would  like  to  trace,  so  far  as  I  can, 
the  handling- of  these  two  measures  by  your  Otiice.  Are  your  records 
in  such  shape  that  you  can  account  for  the  time  that  was  consumed  in 
the  handling-  of  those  measures  by  your  Office — that  is,  the  time  the 
copy  reached  you  and  when  it  left  you^ 

Captain  Bkiax.  ^^'e  can  tell  about  the  last  day  with  reference  to 
this  enrolled  bill  and  the  engrossed  copies. 

]Mr.^owE,  There  has  not  been  any  complaint  particularly  about 
delay's  anterior  to  that  last  day  { 

Captain  Brian.  You  mean  as  to  enrolled  bills.  Yes.  sir:  we  can 
tell  that. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  is  your  system  over  there;'  Do  you  keep  a  time 
record  of  the  receipt  of  copy  ( 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  the  intention.     It  is  not  always  carried  out. 

Mr.  Howe.   Was  it  carried  out  in  this  instance? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes;  we  know  the  minute  this  copy  reached  the 
oliice  and  the  minute  it  left  us. 

Mr.  Howe.   We  would  like  to  hear  from  you  about  that? 

Captain  Brian.  Our  record  shows  that  the  copy  for  this  enrolled 
bill  was  received  at  the  Printing  Otfice  at  4  o'clock  on  the  80th  of  June. 

Mr.  Howe.  To  which  l)ill  do  you  idlude  ? 

Captain  Brian.  The  public  buildings  l)ill.  H.  K.  20110. 

My.  Howe.  How  al)out  the  other  bill?  Well,  let  us  stick  to  our 
text  and  follow  this  bill  through. 

Captain  Brian.  The  co[)y  for  bill  H.  K.  20410  was  received  at  the 
Government  Pi-intingOthce  at  4  o'clock  on  Saturday.  June  30,  and  the 
printed  copy  of  the  enrolled  bill  was  delivered  at  the  Capitol  at  5.85. 

Mr.  Howe.  How  voluminous  was  this  bill? 

Captain  Brian.  Twenty  pages. 

jNIr.  Howe.  Did  it  have  mtmy  amendments? 

Ca])tain  Brian.   Yes;  there  wei'e  something  like  165  amendments. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  Congressional  Record  of  Satui'day.  June  80,  11)06, 
shows  that  the  Senate  convened  at  10  o'clock  a.  m. 

Captain  Brian.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  that  there  v\'ere  something  like  nine  recesses  taken 
awaiting  the  receipt  of  this  tinal  print? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  sir.  Mr.  Howe,  you  will  tind  in  the  proceed- 
ings, shortly  after  the  assembling-  at  10  o'clock 

Mr.  Howe.  In  the  case  of  this  bill,  did  you  follow  the  |jractice  that 
has  been  suggested,  of  anticipating  the  adoption  of  amendments? 

Captain  Brian.    Yes,  sir;  everything  had  been  anticipated. 

Mr.  Hoave.  So  that  when  you  received  the  tinal  copy  it  was  a  mere 
matter— — 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  23 

Ciiptain  Brian.  Of  puttiny-  the  aincndments  in  unci  re;idiiii4'  the 
proof.  1  coninionced  to  say,  Mr.  IIowo,  that  shorth'  after  the  Senate 
asscMiibled  on  Saturda}',  fJune  HO,  Senator  Scott  asked  the  Senate  to 
have  patience,  and  said  that  he  wished  to  state  tliat  as  soon  as  the 
report  could  he  written  up  bv  the  cUm-Us  ""the  conferees  on  the  public 
buildings  bill  have  agreed  0!i  a  report,  which  will  l)e  presented.'' 

Mr.  HowK.  Tiiat  was  about  what  time!* 

Ca])tain  Biuax.  That  was  shortly  after  the  Senate  assembled,  at  10 
o'clock  in  the  morning.  I  simply  want  to  show  that  the  Senate  was 
impatient  for  the  printed  copy  that  early  in  the  day,  l)efoie  the  con- 
ference report  had  even  been  written, 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  there  anything  that  shows  when  that  conference 
report  was  finally  submitted^ 

('aptain  Brian.  1  do  not  know  that  there  is,  but  you  will  find  that 
at  12.08  o'clock  Senator  Warren  said:  "Mr.  President,  on  the  other 
side  the  public  buildings  bill  is  yet  under  consideration,  the  conference 
report  not  having  been  made."  That  was  at  12.3s  o'clock.  At  1.10 
o'clock  Mr.  Scott  announced  that  he  was  expecting  every  minute  the 
public  buildings  bill  from  the  House,  and  he  said:  '■' 1  believe  that  is 
what  is  delaying  the  House.''  About  1.30  o'clock  it  appears  that  the 
conference  report  was  submitted  in  the  Senate 

Mr.  Howe.  About  1.30? 

Captain  Bkian.  After  1.30.  It  was  after  reassembling,  after  the 
recess,  at  1.30.  The  conuiiittee  on  conference  submitted  their  report 
to  the  Senate.  It  was  agreed  to  in  the  Senate  just  before  the  recess 
at  1.55. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  then  the  Senate  took  a  recess  until  5  o'clock. 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Hale  made  the  announcement  at  1.55  that  "in- 
formation has  come  from  the  House  of  Representatives  that  the  bills 
in  the  course  of  enrollment  can  not  be  completed  before  half  past  5  or 
6  o'clock." 

Mr.  Howe.  And  it  was  then,  presumably,  in  the  enrolling  office  of 
the  House? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr,  Howe.  The  conference  report  having  been  adopted  in  the 
House  'I 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  sir.  At  2  o'clock,  Mr.  Howe,  we  received  this 
note  from  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House:  "Will  have  copy  for 
public  buildings  bill  soon.     The  conferees  have  agreed." 

Mr.  Howe.  That  was  at  2  o'clock '( 

Captain  Brian.  At  2  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe,  When  did  j^ou  say  3'ou  received  the  copy  I 

Captain  Brian.  At  4  o'clock. 

Mr.  How^E,   And  you  returned  the  bill  at  5.10,  was  it? 

Captain  Brian.  5.35,  sir. 

Mr.  How^E.  That  is  to  say,  the  bill  reached  the  Capitol  at  5.35? 

Captain  Brian.  It  left  our  Office  at  5.35. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  it  rested  in  your  place  from  4  o'clock - 

('aptain  Brian.   From  4  o'clock  until  5.35. 

Mr.  How^E.  That  is  an  hour  and  thirt^^-tive  minutes. 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  This  copy  goes  down  from  the  Capitol  in  what  way  ^ 

Captain  Brian.  It  is  sent  by  our  messenger. 


24  PRINTING    OF    KILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

]\Ir.  lIowK.  Is  it  sent  by  a  Capitol  messenger  or  a  Printing- Office 
messenger^ 

Captaiii  Brian.  A  Printing  Office  messenger.  As  a  general  thing 
everybody  uses  our  messengers.  Tliey  find  them  better  than  other 
})eoi)le's. 

]\Ir.  Howp:.  They  do  not  stop  on  the  way  and  play  bair^ 

Captain  Brian.  No,  sir.  We  put  our  niessengers  up  against  the 
world,  and  they  make  a  record  of  coming  from  the  Capitol  to  the 
I'rinting  Office  in  five  or  six  minutes. 

Mr.  Howe.  They  use  bic3'cles? 

Captain  Brian.  The}^  use  bicycles,  and  they  take  a  pride  in  their 
work.  Each  one  tries  to  see  how  much  quicker  he  can  come  than  the 
other  fellow. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  your  messenger  here  who  carried  this  copy  that 
reached  your  hands  at  4  o'clock? 

Captain  Brian.  Our  messenger  is  here,  Mr.  Howe;  but  the  copy 
comes  down  from  the  Capitol  sealed  up,  and  the  messenger,  nine  times 
out  of  ten,  does  not  know"  what  he  is  bringing.  All  he  knows  is  that 
he  is  bringing  a  hurried  job. 

Mr.  Howe.  Was  there  frequent  transmission  of  copy  between  the 
Printing  Office  and  the  Capitol  on  that  day? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  sir;  they  were  running  all  the  time. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Then  this  messenger  could  not  identifv  that  particular 
job? 

Captain  Brian.  I  do  not  think  he  could. 

Mr.  HoW'E.  Unfortunatel}"  we  have  not  any  testimon}''  from  the 
House  enrolling  force  showing  when  they  delivered  the  cop}^  to  your 
messenger. 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Howe,  is  there  not  some  waj^  to  get  a  state- 
ment from  Mr.  McKenne}'?  We  would  be  delighted  to  have  such  a 
statement,  and  we  do  not  think  this  investigation  can  be  complete 
unless  we  do  get  a  statement  from  Mr.  McKenney. 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  j^'ou  had  any  conversations,  or  has  anyone  in  your 
office,  had. any  conversations  with  Mr.  McKenney,  the  enrolling  clerk 
of  the  House,  on  this  subject? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  sir;  I  had  a  conversation  with  Mr.  McKenney. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  was  the  trend  of  his  remarks? 

Captain  Brian.  I  had  a  conversation  with  Mr.  McKenney,  and  I 
asked  Mr.  McKenney  to  go  to  the  Public  Printing  Office  and  repeat  in 
the  presence  of  the  Public  Printer  and  Mr.  Young  and  Mr.  Morgan 
what  he  had  said  to  me.     May  I  say  now  what  Mr.  McKenney  saidi 

Mr.  Howe.  I  should  be  pleased  to  hear  what  he  said. 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  McKenney  said  that  the  Printing  Office  had 
been  prompt  as  usual;  that  in  the  ten  years  that  he  had  been  enrolling 
clerk  he  had  never  had  any  fault  to  find  or  complaint  to  make  of  the 
Printing  Office,  and  that  the  service  this  3"ear  was  better  than  ever. 

Mr.  Howe.  Did  he  say  anything 

Captain  Brian.  Let  me  sa}'  one  or  two  more  words.  He  spoke  of 
the  people  who  were  handling  the  copy.  He  said  he  was  under  obli- 
gations to  them,  that  they  did  their  work  intelligently  and  well;  and 
he  also  said  that  he  wanted  to  include  the  messengers- -that  they  Avere 
the  best  set  of  messengers  he  ever  came  in  contact  with.  That  is,  in 
substance,  what  Mr.  McKenney  said,  only  he  said  it  in  a  good  deal 
stronger  lano'uaoe  than  1  have  p'iven  it  to  vou. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    .JOINT    KKSOLUTIONS.  25 

]Mr.  HowK.  This  conversution  followed  the  criticism  that  was  made 
in  the  Senate? 

Captain  Bhiax.  Yes;  this  conversation  was  held  last  Sunday  morn- 
ing about  11  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  Did  he  make  any  specific  allusions  to  the  criticism 
reo-arding-  these  two  measures  il 

Captain  Bkiax.   Yes;  he  said  there  was  no  call  for  it,  in  his  opinion. 

]\lr.  Howe.  That  is,  as  it  related  to  the  Printing  Office? 

Captain  Bhiax.  As  it  related  to  the  Printing  Office;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Did  he  speak  of  any  delay  that  occurred  in  the  enroll- 
ing room  of  the  House? 

Captain  Brian.  No.  He  said  he  did  everything  possible  for  a  man 
to  do.  He  worked — 1  do  not  know  how  man}^  hours — M  or  48  hours 
without  resting.  1  forget  the  number  of  hours  that  he  said  he  him- 
self had  worked  without  rest  or  sleep.  Mr.  McKenney  also  made  the 
statement  that  he  had  made  it  plain  that  the  condition  of  the  work  was 
such  that  Congress  could  not  adjourn  until  10  o'clock  that  night. 

Mr.  How^E.  To  whom  did  he  make  it  plain? 

Cai)tain  Brian.  I  think  to  the  officers  of  the  House,  pevhaps  the 
Clerk  of  the  House — some  one  who  was  inquiring  about  the  condition 
of  his  work. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  inference  is  that  the  major  part  of  this  delay,  then, 
occurred  in  the  House  enrolling  office. 

Captain  I^riax.  Mr.  McKenney  said  there  was  no  delay,  Mr.  Howe. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  mean — perhaps  I  should  not  have  used  the  term 
delay 

Captain  Brian.  That  there  was  no  delay  either  in  his  office  or  in 
the  Printing  Office;  that  everything  was  done  just  as  promptly  as  it 
could  be  done.  But  it  takes  time,  and  you  can  not  make  up  the  copy 
for  a  l)ill  in  a  few  minutes.  There  was  a  bill  that  made  fortj'-seven 
pages  that  he  had  to  make  up  from  five  different  pieces  of  copy,  and 
it  takes  time  to  do  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  Does  he  write  that  cop}^  by  hand  or  type  write  it,  or 
does  he  cut  and  paste  ( 

Captain  Brian.  No;  he  takes  one  of  these  printed  copies  and  puts 
the  amendments  in  anf  cuts  out  what  is  not  to  remain  in  it;  but  he 
has  to  compare  this  after  he  gets  through  with  the  official  copy — with 
the  Senate  amendments  and  with  the  conference  report.  In  this  case 
I  think  there  were  two  conference  reports,  at  least  two,  and  I  do  not 
know  how  many  more. 

Mr.  Horne.  Yes;  two. 

Captain  Brian.  Yes:  I  know  there  were  two  conference  reports. 

Mr.  Howe.  Instead  of  referring,  then,  to  delay  in  the  House  enroll- 
ing room,  perhaps  I  should  say  it  appears  the  l^ulk  of  the  time  was 
consumed  in  the  House  enrolling  room? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes;  that  is  right.  That  is,  between  2  o'clock, 
when  he  said  he  expected  that  copy,  and  4  o'clock.  That  was  con- 
sumed in  the  House  enrolling  room. 

Mr.  Howe.  Now,  this  hour  and  thirty  five  minutes  that  you  had  the 
bill — is  that  an  unusual  length  of  time  to  be  consumed  in  the  returning 
of  printed  matter  from  the  Printing  Office? 

Captain  Brian.  No,  sir;  it  could  not  be  done  an}^  quicker  than  that; 
everyljod}^  was  on  the  lookout  and  giving  strict  attention  to  the  Con- 
gressional work. 


26  PKINTIN(i    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS, 

Mr.  Howe.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  about  the  personnel  of  the  bill 
force  of  your  otiioe.  The  general  impression  has  been,  during-  the 
past  eight  or  nine  years  that  I  have  been  connected  with  the  Capitol, 
that  you  had  a  very  etticient  bill  force  in  the  Printing  Office,  and  the 
impression  has  gotten  al)()ut  in  some  way  or  another  that  that  foree 
has  been  reorganizetl  and  the  persoiuiel  considerably  changed.  Is 
that  true^ 

Captain  Bhiax.  No,  sir.  I  want  to  make  that  very  emphatic,  that 
that  force  has  not  been  changed.  That  force  is  the  same,  except  for 
deaths  and  resignations,  that  it  has  been  for  the  last  eight  or  nine  years. 
i\lr.  Young,  here,  the  foreman  of  printing,  has  had  chai-ge  of  the  bill 
force  for  certainly  thirteen  or  fourteen  years. 

Mr.  Young.  Since  1891. 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Morgan  has  had  immediate  charge,  that  is, 
doing  the  work  with  his  two  hands  and  seeing  that  others  do  the  work, 
for  the  last  four  or  five  years.  Before  that  he  was  what  you  might 
call  an  understudy  of  a  very  efficient  man  who  died.  We  could  not 
keep  him  any  longer.  And  it  is  the  same  with  the  proof  readers. 
^Ir.  Kelly,  there,  is  the  same  pressman  that  has  been  at  work  on  these 
parchment  bills  ever  since  we  have  })een  printing  on  parchment,  and 
if  anybody  can  do  it  any  better  than  he  can  they  are  welcome  to  his 
job.  I  have  seen  him — well,  J  will  not  tell  you  about  it.  He  has  run 
the  presses  better  and  faster  than  I  ever  saw  anybody  else  do  it;  and 
I  want  to  say  the  same  for  the  whole  force.  There  have  been  no 
changes  in  the  Printing  Office  under  Mr.  Stillings's  administration, 
except  those  that  occur  from  death,  resignation,  and  a  few  from 
unavoidable  causes. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  there  are  not  many  new  men  on  the  bill  force!' 

Captain  Brian.  There  are  not  many  new  men  on  the  bill  force.  I 
will  say  this,  Mr.  Howe,  and  1  want  to  make  this  plain,  there  is  not 
anyone  on  the  bill  foi'ce,  who  has  charge  of  anything,  who  is  new. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  have  not  noticed  any  disposition  on  the  part  of 
that  force  to  shirk  their  work  this  year,  as  compared  with  previous 
years? 

Captain  Brian.  No.  On  the  contrary,  they  are  both  quick  and  effi- 
cient. I  thinlc  I  know  something  about  bill  printing.  1  have  been 
connected  with  the  Printing  Office  perhaps  longer  than  any  of  you  can* 
remember.  I  had  charge  of  the  bills  thirty  years  ago  myself,  and  I 
have  been  in  touch  with  it  ever  since  as  foreman  of  printing  and  chief 
clerk,  and  I  know  just  exacth'  what  time  it  takes  to  print  a  bill,  and  I 
know  when  you  may  expect  it  and  when  to  be  on  the  lookout.  Mr. 
Y'oung  and  Mr.  Morgan  are  just  as  efficient  men  as  you  covdd  find  in 
the  country. 

Mr.  Howe.  How  many  men  are  there  now  on  the  l)ill  force,  Captain 
Brian  ? 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Young  has  the  list  there.  The  ]>ill  force 
depends,  Mr.  Howe,  on  the  amount  of  copy.  We  have  a  large  and 
efficient  bill  force  that  works  on  bills  when  bill  copy  is  in.  When 
bill  copy  is  not  there  they  have  something  else. 

Mr.  Young.  There  are  192  people. 

Captain  Brian.  There  are  192  people. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  presumption  is  that  during  the  closing  days  of 
Congress  there  is  more  bill  copy  than  at  any  other  time,  and  I  pre- 
sume the  force  would  reach  its  maximum  at  that  time. 


PRINTING    OF    KILLS    AND    JOINT  ^KESOLUTIONS. 


27 


Cuptiiin  Brian.  There  ure  11*2  people. 

Mr.  Young.  That  is,  not  incliuliiig  proof  readers  aiul  copy  holders, 
in  t'aet  all  the  proof  room,  nor  the  press  room  downstairs.  That  is 
merely  the  hill  force  proper,  taking'  in  the  composing-  room. 

Mr.  Howe.   Is  that  hand  or  maehin(>  composition^ 

Mr.  YouN(j.    It  is  all  hand  i-omposition. 

Captain  Brian.    May  1  introduce  rioht  here  at  this  point 

Mr.  lIowE.  1  would  like  to  ask  you  if  you  have  anythiny-  that  siiow.s 
the  volume  of  work  that  your  office  has  turned  out  this  sessiori  as  com- 
pared with  previous  sessions? 

Captain  Brian,  f  have  a  little  statement  here  that  we  prepared,  when 
we  found  we  had  to  come  up  here,  of  the  bills — and  when  I  say  bills  I 
mean  concurrent  resolutions  and  joint  resolutions.  That  statement 
shows  that  in  this  tirst  session  of  the  Fifty  tiinth  Congress  there  were 
2S,L^;36  bills  as  against  27,*.H);-*)  for  the  three  sessions  of  the  Fifty-eighth 
Congress.  Of  reported,  referred,  and  engrossed  bills,  there  were 
21,48ji  in  this  session  as  against  17,()6()  in  the  three  sessions  of  the 
Fifty-eighth  Congress.  Of  enrolled  bills,  there  were  -f.25.S  in  this  ses- 
sion as  against  4:,18!>  in  the  three  sessions  of  the  Fifty-eighth  Congress. 
Of  laws,  there  were  4,U43  in  this  session  as  against  4,181)  in  the  three 
sessions  of  the  Fifty-eighth  Congress.  Of  House  and  Senate  reports,' 
there  were  9.522  this  session  as  against  9.3t»6  for  the  three  sessions  of 
the  Fifty-eighth  Congress.  Of  the  daily  Kecord,  including  the  index, 
there  were  1.5.980  pages  this  session  as  against  13,7<I5  pages  for  the 
three  sessions  of  the  Fiftv-eighth  Congress. 


I  'niniKii-dtire  M'lttmciit — Bills,  resolnlions,  laics,  reporls,  and  (lailij  Record,  FiJh/-el(/lilJi  and 

Fijhj-n  Intli  Congresses. 


Seiifitt'  concurrenl  resolutions 

,.      Senate  resolntions 

i^      Senate  joint  res()hitif)ns 

Senate  bills 

Honse  eon  current  resolutions 

House  resolutions 

House  joint  resolutions 

House  l)ills 

Reported,  referred,  an<l  engrossed  bills 
Enrolled  bills 

Total  bills 

Laws 

f.      Reports  (Senate  and  Honse) 

Daily  Record,  including  indexes,  pages 


Fifty-ninth 

Congress, 
tir-t  session. 

Fifty-eighth 

Congress. 

t!rst.  second. 

and  third 

se.ssions. 

85 

177 

87 

fi.  55(i 

43 

031 

1S9 

20,518 

112 

308 

115 

7, 295 

83 

550 

231 

19,209 

28, 236 
21,482 
4,2.58 

27, 903 
17,  (')(■)« 

4.139 

53, 970 

49, 708 

4,043 

4,039 

9, 522 

9, 300 

13. 705 


Mr.  Howe.  Then  this  session  has  justly  earned  the  title  of  a  strenu- 
ous session  ( 

Cai)tain  Brian.  That  is  right,  sir;  and  we  claim  that  we  have  done 
everything  re([uired  of  the  Printing  Office  on  time  and  at  the  proper 
time. 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  you  anything  to  show  to  whom  this  enrollfKl  bill 
was  delivered  when  it  came  from  your  office  at  5.85  to  the  Ca])itoH 

(Captain  iirian  produced  a  paper  and  handed  it  to  Mr.  Howe.) 


28  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Howe.  This  is  sigMicd  bv  W.  J.  Brownino-.  Chief  Clerk  of  the 
House. 

Captiiin  Brian.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  says,  "  Parchment  copy  of  H.  K.  ^041(>."  That  is  the 
pu})lic  l)uiUlint)fs  bill  ^ 

Captiiin  Brian.  Yes.  sir. 

Mr.  YorxG.   Mr.  Howe,  can  I  sa^'  a  word? 

Mr.  Howe.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Young.  That,  you  must  remember,  is  what  we  vii'tually  con- 
sider proof.  They  were  parchment  copies,  that  is  true,  but  it  is  too 
important  a  bill  to  pass  through  and  print,  taking-  it  for  granted  that 
it  is  O.  K.,  without  considering  it  as  proof.  That  proof  was  read  in 
the  House  and  returned  M'  the  enrolling  clerk  as  fast  as  he  found  a 
sheet  that  had  to  be  reprinted.  The  hrst  page  of  that  was  received  by 
our  othce  at  6.10.  Of  course  when  I  say  it  was  read  in  the  House  1 
mean  it  was  read  b}'  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House. 

]Mr.  Howe.  I  do  not  quite  understand.  Is  this  matter  that  Mr. 
Browning  has  receipted  for,  which  left  3"our  otiice  at  .5.35,  proof? 

Captain  Brian.  No;  that  was  the  parchment  copy  of  the  bill. 

]Mr.  Howe.  The  final  copy? 

Captain  Brian.  That  was  the  final  copy  of  the  l)ill. 

Mv.  HoAVE.  Then  what  is  this  matter 

Captain  Brian.  Wait  a  moment.  Then,  as  in  the  case  Mr.  Home 
referred  to,  the  enrolling  clerk  found  a  change  which  he  wanted  made 
in  some  pages — corrections. 

Mr.  Howe.  Oh;  were  those  corrections  of  errors  in  his  cop}'  to 
you? 

Captain  Brian.  Those  were  corrections  in  his  copy  that  he  sent 
back.  He  read  that  over,  as  they  do  all  bills,  and  he  found  some  cor- 
rections or  changes  that  he  wanted  to  make  in  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  point  I  want  to  elucidate  is  this:  It  is  apparent 
that  these  corrections  or  changes  operated  to  delay  the  completion  of 
the  work.  YVere  those  errors  Printing  Offiee  errors  or  were  they 
errors  originating  up  here? 

Captain  Brian.  These  omissions  and  mistakes  necessitated  the 
reprinting  of  nine  pages,  the  first  of  which  were  received  fronr  the 
Capitol  at  <)  o'clock  and  16  minutes  and  the  last  one  was  returned  at 
the  Capitol  at  T  o'clock  and  37  minutes. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  last  one  was  /eturned  to  the  Capitol  then  ? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes.  They  came  bj"  separate  pages,  and  were 
returned  by  separate  pages. 

Mr.  Howe.   Now,  what  was  ni}'  question,  Mr.  Reporter  ( 

The  reporter  read  the  question  as  follows: 

•*  ]Mr.  Howe.  \Vere  those  errors  Printing  Ofiice  errors,  or  were  they 
errors  originating  up  here?'' 

Captain  Brian.  On  the  Hrst  two  pages  there  were  some  errors  of 
the  Printing  Office  as  well  as  errors  of  the  Capitol.  The  errors  on  the 
other  pages  were  errors  made  at  the  Capitol,  as  we  understand  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  There  were  two  pages  on  which 

Captain  Brian.  Page  15  had  one  error  on  the  Office — pages  1,  2, 
and  15. 

]\Ir.  Howe.  There  were  three  pages  containing  Printing  Office  errors 
and  how  many  pages  containing  Capitol  errors' 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KP:80LUTI()NS.  29 

Captain  Hhiax.  The.se  three  pages  hud  Capitol  errors  on  them 
besides,  had  they  not^ 

Mr.  Youn(t,  Page  "2. 

Captain  Hiiian.  Page  2.  Page  15  only  had  the  one  error,  but  page 
2  also  had  a  Ca])itol  error. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  there  were  seven  pages  containing  Capitol  errors^ 

Captain  Brian.   Yes,  sir;  and  two  Printing  Office  errors. 

Mr.  Howe.  Two  pages  contained  Printing  Office  errors^ 

Captain  Bkiax.  Yes.  sii-. 

Mr.  Howe.  Tell  me  about  these  errors.  Is  it  your  experience  that 
this  particular  measure  is  anomalous;  is  it  unusual?  AVei-e  there  more 
errors  in  this  than  there  usually  are  in  bills  in  the  closing  days  of 
Congress  ( 

Captain  Brian.  No;  I  think  not. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  work  was,  generally  speaking,  ordinarily  good 
work  i 

Captain  Brian.  The  work  was  ordinaril\'  good  work.  One  man  on 
it  perhaps  did  not  do  as  good  work  as  he  was  accustomed  to  do. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  might  be  due  to  anv  cause — the  heat,  or  somethinp- 
else  ( 

Captain  Brian.  There  are  any  number  of  causes. 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Young,  we  will  get  back  to  what  you  were  saying. 

]Mr.  Young.  AVell.  I  want  to  say  that  our  last  page  that  was  cor- 
rected in  the  Office  was  returned  to  the  House  at  T.3T,  and  that  page 
4  was  sent  down  a  second  time  on  account  of  some  marks  that  had 
been  made  in  the  first  proof  that  was  sent  down,  and  which  were  not 
understood  b\'  the  printer.  I  called  up  Mr.  McKenne}"  over  the  tele- 
phone and  asked  him  whether  the  word  "court-house"  should  be 
inserted  in  eveiy  one  of  live  lines.  They  told  me  over  the  telephone 
that  it  should  be.  I  read  the  lines  myself,  so  as  to  make  sure  there 
would  be  no  mistake  about  the  five  lines,  and  they  were  corrected 
accordingly  and  the  revised  page  delivered.  That  page  4  carme  down 
the  second  time  with  three  of  those  items  knocked  out — not  items,  but 
the  word  "court-house"  was  knocked  out.  That  was  the  final  print, 
and  that  staved  in  the  Office  just  eight  minutes.  It  came  to  the  Office 
at  8.52  and  left  there  at  9  o'clock  sharp.  That  was  the  final  page  that 
we  had  on  that  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  Generally  speaking,  what  was  the  condition  of  the  copy 
as  it  came  in  to  3'our  office  ? 

Mr.  Young.  Well,  the  copy  has  been  about  the  same  this  year  that 
it  always  has  been.  I  have  never  seen  much  difference.  The  onh^ 
difi'erence  is  that  there  is  a  greater  quantit3^ 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  you  often  resort  to  the  telephone  to  elucidate 
obscure  items  in  the  copy  i 

Mr;  Y^ouNG.  Well,  no;  because  as  a  general  thing  on  an  important 
bill  like  "that  they  receive  proofs. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  only  reason  the}"  did  not  receive  proofs  in  this  case 
being  that  the  tension  was  so  great  and  the  hour  so  late? 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.  That  is  it.  It  would  have  taken  just  that  much  longer  to 
do  the  work.  In  other  words,  of  the  pages  that  were  printed,  there 
were  eleven  pages  that  did  not  have  to  be  returned  to  the  Printing 
Office  at  all.  Thev  did  not  have  to  go  on  the  press,  and  it  just  meant 
that  much  time  saved. 


'60  PRINTING    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  llowi:.   'ITjiit  is.  by  iuiticii)ati()n  ^ 

.Mr.  YoiNc;.  Vos.  sii-.  1  will  state  rioht  now  that  as  far  as  the  bill 
work  is  conceriKHl,  I  have  ))een  coniu'ctecl  with  it  since  about  1S*>1. 
The  Printiiiij:  Office  has  studied  all  the  ditlerent  points  in  t)ill  work,  and 
we  have  done  everything-  we  possibl}"  could  do  to  anticipate  work. 
We  have  even  gone  so  far  as  to  take  the  ))ills  with  the  numbered 
aiuendnients,  arid  have  had  them  entirel}'  ready  so  that  when  the  ofticial 
copy  came  down  all  we  had  to  do  was  to  send  it  to  the  proof  room  and 
have  it  read  by  that  copy,  in  other  words,  we  do  the  same  work  that 
is  done  up  here  at  the  Capitol.  If  we  did  not  it  would  take  hours  to  do 
the  work  that  we  are  doing-  now  in  a  very  short  time.  It  is  not  only  in 
that  case.  l)ut  we  will  take,  for  instance,  an  enrolled  l)ill.  The  printed 
])ill  has  been  printed  with  its  numbered  amendments  and  we  iunnedi- 
ixtvly  start  to  enroll  it.  We  run  it  over.  We  never  wait  for  the  official 
copy.  We  run  it  over,  and  then  have  it  read  by  the  official  copj'. 
When  there  are  large  items  we  set  up  both  the  stricken  out  matter  and 
the  italics,  so  as  not  to  be  caught  at  the  last  moment  with  about  one  or 
two  takes  retarding  the  progress  of  the  whole  hill.  That  has  fre- 
cpiently  l)een  done,  ^^'here  one  whole  page  has  l)een  stricken  out  and 
another  whole  page  put  in,  in  italics,  we  would  set  both  of  those  pages 
in  parag-j-aphs  to  facilitate  getting-  the  work  out  for  Congress. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  other  words,  you  simre  no  etl'ort  or  expense  to  expe- 
dite this  purely  Congressional  work^ 

Mr.  Young.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  never  allow  the  general  work  of  the  Office  to 
encroach  upon  the  force  to  an  extent  that  would  delay  Congressional 
work  ^ 

Mr.  Youn(t.  No,  sir.  Thu  Congressional  work  gets  the  ])reference 
over  everything  that  comes  into  that  Office. 

Captain  Brian.  And  everything  stops  for  bills,  Mr.  Howe. 

Mr.  Young.  Yes.  sir;  the  appropriation  l)ills  have  the  right  of  way. 
Then,  take  the  supply  l)ills.  A  supply  l)ill  in  the  House,  for  instance, 
has  the  right  of  way.  Certainly,  the  man  in  charge  has  to  use  his 
good  judgment.  If  he  was  only  capable  of  running  one  jol)  at  a  time 
in  a  great  big  office  of  that  kind  he  would  not  be  of  much  account: 
but,  as  1  have  said,  the  supply  bills  have  precedence  over  all  others. 
Naturally,  all  the  other  important  ])ills  are  taken  up  then  in  their 
order.  Reported  bills  are  taken  before  new  bills  are.  The  fact  of 
the  matter  is  that  we  have  handled  bills  for  so  many  years  that  we 
know  very  nearly  what  may  be  called  for  first  without  anything  l)eing 
said.  You  take  the  appropriation  bills,  for  instance,  and  give  them 
the  preference.  Then  you  t-ake  the  reported  bills  and  run  them  out 
next;  you  take  the  public  bills  and  run  them  out  next,  and  you  run 
the  private  bills  last,  which,  in  the  general  run,  seems  to  satisfy  the 
Senate  and  House  most.  If  we  took  the  private  pension  bills,  for 
instance,  and  set  them  up  first  and  let  the  appropriation  bills  go  to  the 
last,  1  think  we  would  have  war  on  our  hands  nearly  every  morning. 

]Mr.  Howp].  Very  likely.  Merely  as  a  matter  of  information,  Mr. 
Young,  you  say  this  bill  printing  is  all  hand  composition^ 

Mr.  Young.  Y'es,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Machine  composition  is  not  feasil)le? 

j\Ir.  YouN(;.   Machine  composition  has  not  been  tried. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  has  never  been  tried;' 


rRlNTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  31 

Mr.  YouN(j.  I  am  not  prei)ared  to  say  whether  it  is  feasible  or  not. 
I  do  not  see  any  reason  in  the  world  why  it  should  not  !)(>  feasible, 
prol)ably.  until  it  could  be  oiv(>ii  a  fair  trial. 

Mr.  Howe.  Of  eoiirse  you  woidd  not  try  it  durino-  a  session  of 
Congress  ? 

Mr.  YouNCJ.  Not  during  ji  session  of  Congress.  That  would  be  a 
very  bad  time  to  make  any  trial.  In  the  iirst  place,  to  make  a  trial 
you  would  have  to  be  prepared  with  matrices  to  do  the  work.  We 
have  the  machines,  but  we  have  not  the  matrices  to  do  the  work.  It 
would  take  ll-point  type,  and  we  haven't  got  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  you  experience  much  ditiiculty  in  dealing  with  the 
co])y  that  the  House  and  Senate  send  to  you^ 

Mr.  YouNo.  Sometimes.  Sometimes  it  is  very  bad,  l)iit  just  as  Cap- 
tain Brian  told  you  a  while  ago,  the  people  that  are  working  on  bills 
now  have  worked  on  bills  for  years.  There  are  a  great  many  liberties 
taken  on  bills 

Mr.  Howe.  What  do  you  mean  by  liberties^ 

Mr.  YouNO.  1  mean  tliat  we  do  not  give  you  copy  on  the  first  print 
of  a  good  many  bills.  H'  we  did.  I  don't  know  what  some  of  them 
would  read  like. 

Captain  Brian.  That  does  not  refer  to  any  appropriation  bills? 

Mr.  Youxc.  Xo;"nothing  excepting,  for  instance,  private  pension 
bills,  where  a  man  will  take  one  prfnted  copy  and  try  to  doctor  it  foi' 
another  man's  bill,  and  he  will  merely  take  the  name  and  scratch  it  out 
and  forget  all  about  the  rest  of  it.  In  that  case  it  has  got  to  be  doc- 
tored and  the  proof  sent  out  and  O.  K.'d,  and.  as  a  general  thing,  it  is 
all  right. 

Captain  Bkian.  Mr.  Young,  in  the  case  of  a  bill  coming  from  a 
committee,  what  is  the  practice  as  to  following  copy? 

^Ir.  Young.  We  follow  it  literally. 

Captain  Brian.   Mistakes  and  everything  else? 

Mr.  You  NO.  Yes,  sir. 

Captain  Brian.  And  in  the  case  of  a  bill  coming  from  a  committee 
after  having  passed  one  house,  is  that  followed  literally  ? 

Mr.  Young.  All  reported  bills  are  followed  literally.  We  make  no 
changes. 

Captain  Brian.  The  copy  must  be  followed,  I'ight  or  wrong? 

Mr.  Young.   Yes.' 

^Slr.  Howe.  Do  you  not  follow  all  copy  literally? 

Mr.  Young.  Except  in  such  instances  as  I  have  just  stated.  If,  for 
instance,  a  man  had  a  small  pension  bill,  and  the  party  that  made  up 
the  l)ill.  whether  the  clerk,  the  Congressman,  or  the  Senator,  had  taken 
an  old  bill  and  tried  to  lit  it  to  a  new  partv,  and  when  3'ou  got  down 
into  it  a  little  bit  deeper  you  found  it  was  ridiculous 

]Mr,  Howe.  You  would  then  use  your  judgment? 

]Mi-.  Young.  A\"e  would  use  our  judgment  and  make  the  changes 
and  send  out  the  proof. 

Captain  Brian.  That  would  be  a  bill  something  like  this,  Mr.  Young, 
would  it  not?  "'A  billfor  the  i)ension,  or  for  the  relief,  of  John  Smith, 
a  member  of  the  Sixty-ninth  New  York.  Company  D,"  and  then  in  the 
body  of  the  l)ill  they  strike  out  William  Brown  and  put  ,Iohn  Smith 
in  and  let  it  I'ead  ''Mem))er  of  Company  B,  Twenty-first  Indiana?" 

Mr.  Y^'ouNG.  That  is  just  the  point  1  wanted  to  make — the  very  point. 


82  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

]Mr,  Howe.  Mr.  Youno-.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  just  a  question 
about  the  eciuipment  of  your  Office  or  the  al)ility  of  your  Office  to  do 
quick  work.  Take,  for  instance,  any  l)ulky  1)111 — an  appropriation  bill 
of,  say.  100  pag^es. 

Mr.  YouNo.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  From  clean,  clear  copy — supposing-  that  you  could  get 
clean,  clear  copv — how  long-  would  it  take  your  Office  to  set  that  up 
and  deliver  it  to  the  Housed 

Mr.  Youxo.   AVithout  anything-  else  in  the  road  at  all^ 

Mr.  Howe.  Y^es. 

jSIr.  YouxG.  Let  me  see.  I  would  have  to  do  probably  a  little  bit 
of  figuring-  on  that.     1  could  not  give  an  ofthand  answer. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  mean  approximately. 

Mr.  Y^ouNG.  I  would  say  a  man  would  set  probably  about  S(»0  an 
hour  or  1,000  an  hour  on  bills.  You  ask  how  long-  it  would  take  the 
Office  to  g-et  that  out^ 

Mr.  Howe.  How  long-  would  it  take  the  Office  to  g-et  that  out? 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.  If  I  had  to  do  the  job  I  would  want  about  three  and  a 
half  to  four  hours  as  an  offhand  estimate. 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Howe,  if  you  will  give  me  a  bill  making-  100 
pages  that  can  l)e  divided  up  into  takes  of  reasonable  size,  I  will  guar- 
antee to  have  that  bill  printed  and  delivered  to  the  Capitol  in  two 
hours. 

Mr.  Young.  Mr.  Howe  was  speaking-  of  appropriation  bills,  in 
which  you  are  likely  to  strike  almost  any  kind  of  items. 

Captain  Brian.  Of  course,  I  am  talking-  about  a  straight  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  Take  a  bill  like  that  Alaskan  code,  for  instance. 

Captain  Brian.  As  I  remember  the  Alaskan  code  bill,  there  were  a 
good  many  long  paragraphs  in  it. 

Mr.  Hoave.  It  was  a  bill  of  something  like  600  pages. 

Captain  Brian.  I  know  it  very  well.  I  worked  on  it,  and  there 
were  a  great  many  long  paragraphs  in  it  that  could  not  be  divided. 

Mr.  ITowE.  Would  the  time  be  determined  l)y  the  time  necessary 
for  one  man  to  set  the  longest  paragi-aph  { 

Captain  Brian.  Y"es,  practically.  In  the  early  part  of  the  work  you 
could  not  go  ahead  with  your  make-up  until  the  man  got  through. 
We  give  the  matter  out  down  there  in  small  takes,  and  we  can  go  right 
ahead  until  we  strike  the  make-up,  and  then  we  have  to  wait  until 
we  get  that  long  take  in. 

Mr.  Howe.  Of  course  you  always  arrange  this  work  in  takes? 

Captain  Brian.  Always  in  takes,  and  short  takes. 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.  I  would  like  to  state  one  thing  right  there,  and  that  is 
that  when  reprint  copy  comes  to  the  office,  if  it  is  a  bill  that  had  been 
introduced  probably  the  previous  year,  or  two  or  three  years  before, 
and  only  one  copj^  is  sent  down,  we  have  both  sides  of  the  copy  to 
deal  with,  and  a^ou  virtually  have  to  give  a  man  two  takes  instead  of 
one.  It  all  depends  entirel}'  upon  the  class  of  copy  you  receive  as  to 
how  long  it  will  take. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  why  I  asked  you  about  the  condition  of  the 
copy  you  receive  from  the  Capitol.     Of  course,  during  the  progress 
of   the    recent  investigation  conducted   l)y  the  Joint   Committee  on 
Printing,  it  was  made  apparent  that  your  Office  was  hampered  fre 
quently  \)\  receiving  ver}"  bad  copy  from  some  of  the  Departments  ? 


PRINTING    OB^    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  38 

Mr.  YouN(i.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  I  wondered  whether  that  criticism  could  be  made 
as  to  the  cop^^  coming-  from  the  Capitol. 

Mr.  Youxc.  Only  partially. 

Captain  Brian.  May  I  ask  a  question^  The  copy  that  comes  from 
the  enrolling  clerks  is  particularl}"  good  copy,  is  it  not^ 

Mr.  Young.   Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  That  cop}?'  is  as  good  as  that  which  comes  from 
Members,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  Young.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  I  mean  the  cop}^  coming  from  the  enrolling  clerks 
of  the  Housed 

Mr.  Young.  It  is  generally  in  very  good  condition. 

^^'e  have  the  corrected  proof,  that  is,  corrected  after  the  anticipated 
proof  is  sent  to  the  enrolling  office,  and  they  tinally  put  in  their  cor- 
rections. We  may  have,  for  instance,  two  or  three  galle3'S,  with  20 
or  30  amendments.  Those  20  or  30  amendments  ma}'  be  increased,  by 
the  time  we  g"et  that  proof,  to  40  or  45  amendments.  Those  amend- 
ments are  pasted  and  written  in  on  the  margins  and  interlined,  and 
sometimes  it  is  next  to  impossible  to  cut  it,  to  give  it  in  small  takes  to 
the  compositors.  As  a  natural  consequence,  if  you  have  a  galley  that 
you  might  probably  correct,  if  you  could  cut  it  small  enough,  in  a  very 
few  minutes,  it  might  take  you  three-quarters  of  an  hour  or  a  full 
hour  to  do  the  same  work  if  3'ou  could  not  cut  it. 

Mr.  HowK.  What  would  you  gentlemen  think  of  the  feasibility  of 
detailing  a  competent  man  from  your  Office  to  the  enrolling  offices  of 
the  Senate  and  House  during  the  closing  days  of  Congress,  to  assist 
particularl}'  in  the  preparation  of  cop3^,  with  a  view  to  enal)Hng  3'our 
Office  to  handle  it  expeditiously? 

Captain  Brian.  I  want  to  answer  that.  Mr.  Piatt,  the  enrolling- 
clerk  of  the  Senate,  is  an  old  graduate  of  our  office.  He  knows  what 
is  re(|uired,  and  I  do  not  tliink  he  needs  an}' body  to  instruct  him  or  to 
teach  him  or  to  help  him.  His  assistants  are  equally  capable.  Mr, 
McKenney,  over  on  the  House  side,  has  been  there  ten  years,  and  I 
know  he  is  able  and  competent.  I  have  never  found  any  difficulty 
with  him.  I  have  been  up  here  and  stayed  with  them  ])oth,  Mr.  Piatt 
and  Mr.  McKenney,  all  night,  before  now.  I  have  waited  with  them 
for  cop3'  or  something  to  turn  up.  I  think  what  they  do  want, 
particularly  on  the  House  side,  is  more  enrolling  clei'ks. 

Mr.  Howe.  Yet  Mr.  Young  says  that  frequenth'  copy  comes  over 
there  so  interlined  and  so  patched  that  it  is  difficult  to  distribute  it  in 
takes,  and  I  thought  very  likely  if  a  man  familiar  with  your  processes 
over  there  were  to  assist  in  compiling  this  copy  it  would  facilitate  \'our 
work. 

Captain  Brian.  That  comes  from  this  cause,  Mr,  Howe:  Take  a 
page  of  copy  that  the  Senate  or  House  has  put  a  great  many  amend- 
ments on,  one  following  right  close  on  after  the  other.  The  clerks 
have  got  to  put  them  in  that  sequence  in  the  copy. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  merely  asked,  to  determine  if  possible,  whether  an}^ 
improvements  in  the  methods  could  be  efiected. 

Captain  Brian.  I  do  not  know  that  there  is  anything-  that  could  be 
supplied  up  here.  -Mr.  Young  has  been  up  here.  I  have  been  up  here 
with  Mr.  Young  frequentl}^  going  over  copy  with  the  enrolling  clerks 

3 


34  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

in  ])()th  Houses.  ]Mr.  Piatt,  as  1  said  Ix^fore,  knows  what  is  required. 
He  formulated  the  rules  for  the  printing-  of  enrolled  bills,  and  one 
paragi'aph  reads  ''that  this  copy  shall  be  prepared  so  as  to  be  easily 
disscH'ted." 

Mr.  HowK.  I  would  like  to  ask  3'ou  another  question.  Captain 
Brian.  There  have  l)een  before  the  Senate  and  House  Connuittees  on 
Printing'  several  times  propositions  looking'  to  the  installation  of  a 
pneumatic-tube  service  between  the  Gapitol  and  the  Government 
Printing'  Otiice.  Would  you  consider  that  of  advantage  to  your  ottice, 
or  rather  would  you  consider  tliat  the  establishment  of  a  tube  service 
would  facilitate  the  work  and  enable  3'ou  to  handle  it  more  expedi- 
tiously than  at  present? 

Captain  Brian.  The  only  thing  would  be  the  tiiue  l)etween  here  and 
the  oliice.  If  the  copy  could  get  there  instantaneously  we  would  be 
that  much  ahead. 

Mr.  Young.  It  would  undoul)tedl3^  be  a  saving  of  time,  approxi- 
mately a  quarter  of  an  hour  going  and  coming. 

Mr.  Howe.  A  quarter  of  an  hour  on  a  very  hot  night  is  quite  im- 
portant. 

Captain  Brian.  Our  young  men  have  gone  up  to  the  Capitol  very 
cpiickly.  We  have  started  a  messenger  and  have  then  telephoned  that 
the  messenger  had  started,  and  asked  them  to  let  us  know  when  he  g'ot 
to  the  Capitol,  and  almost  before  we  could  get  away  from  the  telephone 
word  Avould  be  received  that  the  messenger  had  arrived. 

Mr.  Howe.  Well,  gentlemen,  it  is  getting  late,  and  Saturday  is  a 
short  day.     Mr.  Stillings  is  not  here 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Howe,  before  you  close  I  want  to  ask  Mr. 
Young  one  or  two  questions.  Mr.  Young  has  stated  that  he  had  had 
charge  of  the  bills  for  a  number  of  3'ears,  which  we  all  know.  I  want 
to  ask  him  if  the  force  was  as  ethcient  in  the  last  session  as  it  has  been 
in  previous  sessions? 

^[r.  Y'ouNG.  l^es,  sir.  And  furthermore  I  think  the  ethciency  of 
that  force  has  been  improved  from  year  to  year.  That  statement  is 
easily  understood.  If  you  use  the  same  compositors  on  the  same 
work  they  are  bound  to  become  more  efhcient,  and  I  think  our  force 
there  to-day  is  as  efficient,  and  more  so,  than  it  ever  was  before. 

Mv.  Howe.  You  have  called  attention  to  the  great  volume  of  work 
handled  in  the  Office  during  this  session  as  compared  with  the  volume 
of  work  in  the  three  previous  sessions  of  Congress. 

Mr.  Young.  Y"es,  sir.     I  have  a  statement  right  here. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  handled  that  volume  of  work  with  practically  the 
same  force,  or  with  a  larger  force? 

Mr.  Young.  We  handled  it  with  just  seven  men  less,  according  to 
my  slip.-  We  might  var^-  proba1)ly  tw^o  or  three  men  from  the  begin- 
ning to  the  end  of  the  session,  but  the  line  up  of  the  session  shows  just 
seven  men  less  than  it  did  a  year  ago. 

Captain  Brian.  I  believe  3'ou  said  that  it  has  been  the  practice  of 
the  Office  to  keep  the  same  men  where  thev  showed  themselves  com- 
petent for  the  work?  ■ 

Mr.  Young.  Yes,  sir;  principally  those  people  who  have  important 
positions. 

Captain  Brian.  And  that  has  been  the  practice  for  the  past  session  i 

Mr.  Young.   Yes,  sir;  it  has  been. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KESOLUTIOIJS.  35 

Captain  Brian.  Will  you  state  whether  these  men  having  charg-e  of 
this  work  are  the  same  men  that  have  had  eharge  of  it  for  the  past 
number  of  years? 

Mr.  YoLTJUi.   Yes,  sir;  they  are.     I  ean  name  them. 

Captain  Brian.  And  that  has  been  the  praetiee  all  throuoh  the  Office, 
wherever  a  man  has  been  proved  competent  he  has  been  kept  in  that 
position  without  hindrance  or  interference;  is  that  so  or  not? 

Mr.  Young.   Yes,  sir;  it  is. 

C'aptain  Brian.  The  practice  of  the  present  Fu])lic  Printer  is  not  to 
make  a  change  where  a  man  is  competent  and  attends  to  his  business. 
Is  that  as  >'ou  understand  it? 

JNlr.  Young.  Yes,  sir. 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Howe,  we  hope  you  will  conmiunicate  with  Mr. 
McKenney. 

Mr.  IIowK.  I  was  about  to  remark  that  I  will  endeavor  to  reach  Mr. 
McKeimey  and  get  from  him  a  tirst-handed  expression  on  this  subject. 
The  resolution  under  which  the  Committee  on  Printing  is  proceeding 
does  not  empower  the  conmiittee  to  sumnion  witnesses,  but  1  have  no 
doubt  Mr.  McKenney  would  be  very  glad  to  express  himself  to  the 
connuittee. 

Captain  Brian.  May  I  ask  if  the  committee  could  not  ask  Mr. 
McKenney  to  send  a  telegram  at  the  expense  of  the  conmiittee? 

Mr.  Howe.  AVell,  I  think  a  more  full  expression  from  Mr.  McKen- 
ney would  be  desirable.  I  have  not  ([uestioned  3^ou  gentlemen  about 
that  other  bill,  but  as  it  is  getting  late 

Captain  Brian.   Which  other  bill  is  that? 

Mr.  Howe.  I  mean  the  deticiency  bill  that  appropriated  money  lo 
carry  out  the  provisions  of  the 

Captain  Brian.  You  do  not  mean  the  general  deticiency  bill? 

Mr.  Howe.  No. 

Captain  Brian.  It  is  H.  R.  20511. 

Mr.  Howe.  Was  there  not  an  urgent  deficiency  bill 

Captain  Brian.  There  was  a  l)ill  in  connection  Avith  this  appropri- 
ating some  money,  but  we  have  never  understood  that  there  was  any- 
thing the  matter  with  that  liill  or  that  there  was  any  complaint  about  it. 

Mr.  Young.  The  general  deticiency  bill  has  been  brought  into  con- 
troversy. 

Mr.  W.  A.  Smith.  There  was  a  deticiency  bill  that  carried  an  appro- 
priation for  the  public  buildings  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  the  bill  1  mean. 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  H.  R.  20511. 

Mr.  Young.  We  never  understood  that  there  was  anything  said 
about  that,  Mr.  Howe.  We  supposed  all  the  time  that  it  was  the 
general  deticiency  bill. 

Mr.  ^V.  A.  Smith.  Then  there  was  a  resolution  to  correct  an  error 
that  occuri'ed  in  the  sundry  civil  bill. 

Mr.  Young.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  Referring  to  the  Congressional  Record  containing  the 
criticism  leading  to  this  investigation  the  statement  is  made: 

It  has  been  difficult  to  get  bills  that  come  here  from  the  House  and  are  ordered  to 
be  printed  up  before  the  committees  actino;  on  them  in  the  time  in  whicli  we  have 
ordinarily  had  them.  The  Printing  Office  has  been  heretofore  quite  a  model  in  that 
regard.  I  have  sometimes  l)een  surprised  at  the  celerity  witli  which,  when  a  bill 
has  been  sent  there,  it  is  printed  and  returned  here  with  the  amendments  nundjered. 


36  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

In  the  last  days  of  the  session  this  is  essential,  not  only  to  the  comfort  of  memhers 
of  this  body  hut  to  the  interests  of  legislation. 

This  year,  for  the  first  time,  it  has  been  hard  work  to  get  anything  out  of  the 
Printing  Otliee.  On  one  of  the  important  bills  that  we  had  we  waited  and  waited, 
and  at  last  the  Committee  on  Aijpropriations  had  to  go  to  work  and  consider  an  old. 
print,  having  nothing  more,  in  order  to  transfer  our  amendments  to  the  new  i)rint; 
and  we  could  get  no  satisfaction  from  the  Printing  Office  for  the  delay. 

Do  3'ou  know  to  what  bill  that  relates^ 

Mr.  Young.  It  must  evidentl}^  relate  to  this  deticienc}^  appropria- 
tion bill. 

jMr.  Howe,  The  general  delicienc}^  bill? 

Mr.  Young.  The  general  deticiencj^  bill,  H.  R.  20403. 

Mr.  Howe.  AVhat  are  the  facts  in  that  connection? 

Mr.  Young.  The  engrossed  amendiiients  in  ])ill  H.  R.  20403  were 
received  at  lO  a.  m.  Friday,  and  they  were  returned  at  11.30.  The 
otlicial  copy  for  the  numbered  amendments  was  received  at  2.35  and  it 
was  in  the  office  less  than  an  hour,  because  the  copies  were  delivered 
at  the  Capitol  at  3.25.  Now,  the  office  anticipated  the  importance  of 
this  bill,  and  without  waiting  for  the  official  copy  we  sent  seven  forms 
of  this  to  press  ])efore  the  official  copy  ever  reached  the  Printing  Office. 
The  other  five  forms  were  either  on  the  press  or  on  the  way  down 
there,  and  tifty  minutes  after  it  was  received  at  the  Office  it  w^as  sent 
back.     That  was  a  bill  of  !H)  pages. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  is  the  print  to  which  the  Senator  alludes  here 
when  he  says  that  the  committee  had  to  consider  an  old  print? 

Mr.  Young.  It  must  ))e  the  numbered  amendment  print  that  he  was 
speaking  of,  that  they  wished  to  have,  and  they  nuist  have  worked 
either  on  the  blueprint,  which  was  the  engrossed  copy  of  the  House, 
or  on  the  referred  copy. 

Mr.  Howp:.  How  long  did  you  sa}'  the  numbered  cop}"  matter  was 
in  your  Office? 

Mr.  Young.  The  bill  printed  with  the  numbered  amendments  for 
the  House  was  in  our  Office  from  2.35  to  3.25. 

Captain  Brian.    May  I  ask  a  question? 

Mr.  Howe.  Certainly. 

Captain  Bhian.  You  could  not  have  gotten  that  bill  read}"  for  the 
press  and  printed  in  that  time  unless  you  had  anticiptited  it? 

Mr.  Young.  No,  sir;  we  could  not. 

]\lr.  Howe.  I  know,  but  it  does  not  seem  to  me  that  is  the  print  the 
Senator  refers  to,  because  they  would  not  be  considering  the  numbered 
copy.  ^ 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  the  conferees  were  waiting  for  that,  Mr.  Howe. 
May  I  say  right  there,  that  at  2.35  exactly,  without  knowing  what 
time  this  copy  came  into  the  Office,  they  called  me  up  and  asked  me  if 
there  cotild  not  be  something  done  to  expedite  this  ))ill. 

Mr.  Howe.   Who  called  you  up!' 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Cleaves;  and  I  went  to  the  foreman's  room  and 
saw  Mr.  Dierken,  and  he  showed  me  the  copy  that  had  just  come  in.  but 
he  also  said  they  had  been  anticipating  it  and  were  that  nuich  ahead. 
That  was  2.35  when  they  were  asking  me  for  the  bill,  and  I  have 
found  out  since  that  that  was  the  very  time  it  reached  the  Office.  I 
urged  them  to  put  all  haste  on  it  and  get  it  up  here,  and  I  went  to 
the  working  division  myself,  and  told  them  to  take  no  chances  on  that 
bill.  In  fact,  I  gave  them  instructions  that  they  should  back  up  the 
first  six  copies,  and  not  wait  for  anything. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RP^SOLUTIONS.  87 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  the}' asked  3X)u  for  the  printed  bill  l)efore  you  g^ot 
the  copy,  did  they  ^ 

Captain  Brian.  They  asked  iwq  over  the  telephone.  Mr.  Cleaves 
called  me  over  the  telephone  and  asked  nie  if  we  could  not  do  soine- 
thino-  to  expedite  that  bill.  1  went  to  Mr.  Dierken  and  asked  him  about 
it,  and  he  said,  ''The  copy  has  just  eome  in,  l)ut  we  have  anticipated 
it."  I  commenced  to  get  a  little  inipatient,  and  1  said,  '"  Set  some  time 
on  it  when  you  can  get  it  out."  lie  saN's,  "Shortly  after  8  o'clock." 
I  looked  at  the  clock  then  and  it  was  just  2.85.  I  went  back  to  the 
telephone  and  1  told  them  we  would  get  it  up  there  very  shortly  after 
3  o'clock.  Of  course  the  Printing  Office  can  do  almost  anything,  l)ut 
they  can  not  print  matter  until  the  co])y  gets  there.  1  am  positive  it 
was  just  2.85  when  1  looked  at  the  clock,  and  ]  was  talking  to  Mr. 
Dierken  al)out  that  time. 

Mr.  DiKHKEN.  That  copy  is  prepared  by  Mr,  Matlack,  the  printing 
clerk  of  the  House.  He  gets  the  printed  Senate  amendments  and  then 
he  takes  the  blueprint  and  pastes  them  in.  In  this  case,  like  all 
others,  we  anticipated  them,  and  Mr.  Morgan  prepared  the  copy  and 
had  it  ready  and  sent  it  to  the  press.  So  that  is  where  we  gained  at 
least  three  hours.  If  we  had  had  to  wait  and  set  that  up  after  he  got 
it  down  it  would  have  taken  that  much  longer. 

Ca})tain  Brian.  One  House  does  not  seem  to  know  that  the  other 
House  has  to  prepare  copy  and  that  it  takes  a  few  minutes  to  get 
it  down  there. 

Mr.  Dierken.  The  proof  of  those  amendments  was  sent  to  Mr. 
Piatt  at  half  past  8.  He  returned  it  about  10  o'clock  and  they  were 
sent  to  press  and  we  printed  them,  and  when  Mr.  Matlack  got  the 
copv  of  that  he  commenced  his  work  on  the  mimbered  amendment 

bin: 

Captain  Brian.  It  was  impossible  for  Mr.  jVIatlack  to  proceed  in 
preparing  his  copy  until  he  got  the, engrossed  cop}',  with  the  engrossed 
amendments  prepared  by  Mr.  Piatt. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  see;  the  Senate  has  the  amendments  engrossed? 

Captain  Brian.  The  Senate  has  the  amendments  engrossed. 

Mr.  Howe.   And  sent  to  the  House!" 

Captain  Brian  And  sent  over  to  the  House.  The  House  must  get 
them  before  they  can  prepare  the  bill  for  the  printer. 

Mr.  Young.  1  can  explain  that  to  you  by  the  aid  of  these  [indicating- 
papers].     These  are  what  we  call  engrossed  amendments  of  the  Senate 
to  rtouse  bills. 
,      Mr.  Howe.  Yes. 

V  •  Mr.  Young.  This  is  amendment  No.  1.  Air.  Matlack  takes  his  copy, 
which  is  a  blueprint,  w  ith  that  sent  over  to  the  Senate  as  passed  by 
the  House,  He  looks  at  page  2,  line  6,  and  strikes  out  the  words  ''one 
hundred"  and  inserts  the  words  '''sevent3'-tive,"  as  per  instructions  in 
that  amendment;  and  he  does  the  same  way  with  each  one  of  these. 
He  takes  this  copy  of  the  )>lueprint.  For  instance,  page  2,  line  6, 
strike  outgone  hundred."  He  does  this  way  [illustrating],  and  he 
inserts  "seventy-five"  line  that  [illustrating].      Do  you  seel' 

Mr.  Howe.  Yes. 
^     Mr.  Young.  Now  that  would  be,  when  we  get  it,  amendment  No.  1, 
printed  in  this  shape  [indicating]. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  see. 


38  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

iVIr.  YoiNC.  There  is  your  amcndnieut  No.  1,  only  that  happened 
to  be  an  entire  i)ara<iraph.  ^^'hen  he  strikes  one  of  these  paragraphs 
he  takes  a  ])air  of  shears  and  cuts  it  out  and  pastes  it  on  the  margin. 

Mr.  Howe.   Yes. 

Mr.  YouN(j.  And  when  it  conies  to  us  it  is  in  that  shape  [indicating-]; 
and  we  in  the  meantime  have  anticipated  all  this  b}-  taking  the  reported 
bill  and  using  that  for  our  copj^.  We  know  what  the  engrossed 
amendments  are,  and  we  fix  up  our  reported  bill.  By  the  time  Mr. 
Matlack's  copy  comes  down  there  we  are  already"  through  with  it,  and 
are  ready  to  send  it  to  the  proof  room,  or  yery  near  it. 

jNIr.  Howe.  Well,  on  a  work  of  that  complexity  and  magnitude,  of 
course  time  must  be  consuuK^d  in  preparing  the  copy. 

Captain  Bkiax.  You  see,  the  ditticulty  would  be  that  the  enrolling 
clerk  might  get  hold  of  the  wrong  line.  He  has  to  be  yery  careful. 
He  has  to  compare  it  after  he  has  prepared  it. 

Mr.  Young.  I  think  it  was  just  as  ^Ir.  McKenney  expressed  himself. 
There  was  no  delay  anywhere.     It  just  could  not  be  done  any  faster. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  will  get  an  original  statement  from  Mr.  McKenney. 

Mr.  Young.  1  think  his  statement,  as  he  gaye  it  to  Captain  Brian, 
ooyered  the  ground  so  thoroughly  that  there  could  not  be  any  fault 
found. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  his  statement,  as  Captain  Brian  has  quoted  it,  is 
practically  all  he  said  on  the  sul)ject? 

Captain  Brian.  I  do  not  think  I  made  it  as  strong  as  jNIr.  McKen- 
ney did. 

Mr.  Howe.  When  Mr.  Stillings  is  able  to  appear  a  continuance  of 
this  inquiry  will  be  conducted.  We  will  now  adjourn,  subject  to 
notice. 

The  connnittee  (at  2  o'clock  p.  m.)  adjourned,  subject  to  notice. 


Washungton,  D.  C, 
-//////  10,  1906— S.  15  ovhicl-  p.  hi. 
Met  pui'suant  to  notice  at  the  apartments  of  Charles  A.  Stillings, 
the  Ontario,  Washington,  1).  C. 

Present:  Mr.  A.  H.  Howe,  representing  the  Conmiittee  on  Printing. 
Also  Mr.  Charles  A.  Stillings,  Public  Printer;  Captain  Brian,  Mr. 
Young,  Mr.  Morgan,  and  Mr.  Spottswood. 

STATEMENT  OF  CHARLES  A.   STILLINGS,  PUBLIC  PRINTER. 

Mr.  Howe.  JNIr.  Stillings,  you  are  familiar  with  the  purpose  of  this 
inyestigation,  and  it  will  not  be  necessaiy  for  me  to  restate  it^ 

Mr.  Stillings.  No,  sir;  I  think  I  understand  it  pretty  clearly. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  committee  is  sorry  3'ou  are  indisposed  and  ordinarily 
would  haye  waited  until  you  could  l)e  out,  but  1  have  yery  pressing 
business  that  calls  nie  to  New  York,  so  that  I  haye  come  up  here  to 
question  ,you. 

Mr.  Stillings.  I  regret  very  much  that  1  haye  not  been  able  to  get 
out.  I  would  haye  come  down  to-da}',  but  1113"  doctor  cautioned  me 
against  it.  He  said  1  might  be  out  the  first  of  next  week,  but  that  it 
might  be  next  Monday,  or  two  weeks  from  next  Monday. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  thought  that  under  those  uncertain  conditions  I  would 
just  come  out  and  take  j^our  testimony  here. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  39 

Mr.  Stillings.   It  is  very  kind  of  you. 

Mr.  Howe.  Will  3-011  inform  tlie  comniittee  as  to  the  time  when  you 
assumed  the  duties  of  Public  Printer? 

Mr.  Stillinos.  It  was  either  November  27  or  28.  I  thiid<  it  was 
November  27,  1905. 

j\Ir.  HowK.  I  would  like  to  know  somethino-  ul)out  your  exi)erienee 
in  the  pi-inting-  business  prior  to  your  eomu'etion  with  tiu^  l'riiitint>- 
Ofiice. 

Ml'.  Stillings.  I  have  been  connected  witii  printing- — from  errand 
boy  up  to  oeneral  manao-er— since  I  was  13  yeai's  old.  I  started  in  the 
business  with  my  father,  outside  of  school  hours,  handlino-  electrot3'pe 
plates  and  handling-  forms,  doing  printer's  devil  work,  etc.  I  HnallA' 
left  school  of  my  own  volition  to  go  to  wM)rk  for  him,  and  I  worked 
through  all  the  dc^partments,  at  the  case,  on  the  stone,  cleaning  })resses, 
making  ready,  running  presses,  and  doing  all  of  the  routine  work  antl 
some  portions  of  the  bindery  work.  u\)  to  the  time  when  I  was  17.vears 
of  age,  when  1  gradually  grew  familiar  witn  the  other  portions  of  the 
work,  the  stock  room,  shipping  department,  otHce,  and  clerical  work; 
then  salesman,  business  manager,  and  iinancial  manager — practicalh' 
the  active  manager  of  the  whole  business. 

That  covers  the  period  from  the  time  I  was  13  3-ears  of  age  up  until 
I  was  32,  in  15M)3.  when  I  accepted  the  appointment  as  manager  of 
the  printers'  board  of  trade,  of  Washington,  an  association  of  master 
printers  in  this  city,  composed  of  the  leading  men  in  the  trade.  Mv 
duties  were  such  that  I  had  to  have  a  thorough  training  in  the 
business,  both  fiom  a  practical  and  the  ofiice  and  financial  stand- 
points, it  was  necessary  to  liave  a  thorough  grasp  of  the  details  of 
the  entire  printing  business  in  order  to  act  in  the  advisory  capacity 
which  I  had  to.  In  April,  1905,  I  accepted  the  appointment  to  the 
largest  printers''  board  of  trade  in  the  ITnited  States,  in  New  York 
Cit3%  where  I  was  manager  of  both  the  printers'  and  bookbinders' 
boards.  The  duties  were  similar  to  those  I  had  performed  for  the 
printers'  board  of  trade  in  Washington,  although,  of  course,  on  a 
larger  scale.  These  boards  are  said  to  be  the  largest  in  the  United 
States.     From  there  1  was  appointed  to  the  position  of  Public  Printer. 

yir.  Howe.  Then  3-ou  have  had  experience  in  the  execution  of  large 
contracts^ 

Mr.  Stillings.  Yes,  sir.  Probably  my  prior  experience  would 
cover  a  greater  variety  of  printing,  although  not  a  greater  volume  or 
reijuiring  greater  exactness,  as  regards  correctness  of  service,  than  is 
demanded  of  the  Public  Printer  in  the  (Tovernment  Printing  Office. 

Mr.  Howe.  Has  your  experience  led  you  to  emplo3'  large  num))ers 
of  men  ^ 

]Mr.  Stillings.  As  to  the  printing  trade,  yes;  1)ut  no  private  print- 
ing establishment  could  compare  with  the  (iovernment  Office. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  something  about  your  g'eneral 
polic3'  ''^  ^^^^  office  of  the  Government  Printing-office  since  you  have 
taken  charge,  as  to  whether  it  differs  materiall\  from  the  ])olicy  of 
3-our  predecessors,  as  3'ou  understand  that  policy. 

Mr.  Stillings.  In  taking  charge  of  the  Office  I  accepted  eveiy  man  at 
his  face  value;  that  is,  I  assumed  that  every  man  there  was  compe- 
tent; and  such  removals  as  have'been  made  have  been  for  just  cause, 
such  as  insubordination,  unrelial)ilit3',  inefficiencv;  or  illness— physical 
disability.     I  found  that  the  force  was  ample  to  do  the  work;  in  fact, 


40  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

ut  the  tiiiio  I  went  there  it  was  considerably  lai'ger  than  was  really 
necessar3\  This  session  of  Congress  has  been  so  heavy  that  it  has 
taken  our  full  force  in  the  typographical  department  to  keep  up  with 
it,  and  lu}'  policy  has  been  to  retain  every  efficient  man  in  the  position 
he  occupied  when  1  went  there,  and  to  make  such  promotions  as  were 
necessary  from  those  men. 

So  far  as  my  dealings  with  the  night  forces  at  the  Office,  detailed 
specially  to  serve  the  needs  of  Congress,  and  particularl}^  the  force 
known  as  the  night  l)ill  and  Record  force,  are  concerned,  I  made  it  my 
especial  Imsiness  immediately  after  assuming  office  to  go  over  the  per- 
sonnel of  that  force  very  carefully  with  the  foreman  of  printing,  and  I 
have  not  departed  in  a  single  instance  from  the  policy  of  keeping  tried 
and  experienced  men  at  the  vital  points;  that  is,  I  considered  that  the 
w^ork  of  Congress  was  the  vital  work  of  the  Office  and  must  have 
precedence  over  everything  else;  that  Congress  must  not  be  alloAved 
to  suHer  through  delays  caused  l)y  incompetence  or  lack  of  knowledge 
of  the  requirements  of  Congress,  and  after  appointing  these  men  I 
have  followed  their  work  very  carefully.  I  have  not  seen  any  reason 
to  believe  that  1  made  a  mistake. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  the  removals  under  your  administration  have  not 
been  frec[uent,  1  take  it,  and  have  not  been  extensive.  That  is,  the 
personnel  of  the  force  is  practical  1}^  the  same  now  as  it  has  been? 

JNIr.  Stillings.  Practically  so;  3'es.  Those  who  have  been  dismissed 
have  taken  the  initiative  themselves.  They  have  brought  themselves 
to  my  attention.     I  have  not  gone  hunting  for  them. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  should  like  to  ask  your  opinion,  Mr.  Stillings,  of  the 
qualitications  of  the  skilled  mechanics  in  your  Office  as  compared  with 
the  (jualitications  of  those  you  have  had  to  deal  with  in  private  })usiness, 
particularly  with  regard  to  the  force  that  has  charge  of  the  execution 
of  Congressional  work. 

Mr.  Stillings.  With  the  exception  of  the  very  small  percentage 
which  you  would  expect  to  find  in  any  force  of  men.  in  my  opinion 
we  have  a  gathering  of  mechanics,  both  in  the  typographical  line  and 
in  the  other  departments,  that  can  not  be  excelled  in  this  country.  I 
think  the  Government  Printing  Office  possesses  the  highest  type  of 
skilled  craftsruen,  particidarly  in  the  typographical  division,  not  onh^ 
because  of  their  skill  in  handling  type  metals  but  because  the  average 
intelligence  of  the  men  is  higher,  very  nuich  higher;  and  so  far  as  the 
bill  and  Record  force  goes,  1  think  that  is  particularly  exemplihed  in 
that  the  men  carry  to  their  work  the  proper  comprehension  of  what 
they  are  doing.  They  are  not  mere  automatons,  as  is  sometimes  the 
case  where  men  are  doing  ordinary  bookwork,  but  they  really  under- 
stand the  work  that  is  going  through  their  hands. 

Very  often  that  very  knowledge  and  interest  in  their  work  saves 
their  superior  officers  in  many  cases  where  oversight  might  possibly 
occur  in  the  huri'y  of  getting  out  the  work.  Therefore  their  value  in 
the  oihce  is  increased  to  that  extent.  They  might  be  properly  termed 
specialists.  They  are  distinguished  from  the  ordinary  printers  just 
us  a  high-grade  color  lithographer  would  be  distinguished  from  an 
ordinary  conmiercial  lithographer.  Just  in  that  wa}'  the  l)ill  and 
Record  force  may  be  distinguished  from  the  ordinar}'  straight-matter 
compositors. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  impression  prevails,  Mr.  Stillings,  that  you  have 
exercised  very  strict  discipline  in  your  Office,  a  discipline  much  more 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOHTTIONS.  41 

strict  thiiu  has  ever  been  employed  in  the  adniinisti'utioii  of  the  Office 
heretofore.  I  should  like  to  Jisk  whether  3-011  have  found  that  your 
men  have  become  dissatisHed,  or  negligent,  or  indifferent,  or  unsettled 
as  a  result  of  that  degree  of  disciplined 

Mr.  Stillinos.  The  general  statement  has  l)een  made  that  the  new 
Public  Printer  was  seeking  to  make  a  prison  out  of  the  (government 
Printing  Office,  and  that  statement  emanates,  as  near  as  1  can  trace  it, 
from  that  element  which  is  reached  by  such  disci})line  as  1  have 
brought  about.  If  the  conditions  were  as  we  would  like  to  ha\e  them 
there  would  not  be  any  particularly  noticeable  discipline.  There  was 
grave  need  of  discipline,  and  it  was  occasioned  by  a  small  percentage 
of  the  force,  many  of  whom  have  since  been  dropped,  and  those,  to 
my  knowledge,  after  a  careful  examination,  were  the  onlj^  ones  who 
have  made  complaint. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Then  you  do  not  believe  that  any  restrictive  measures 
that  3'ou  have  adopted  out  there  have  unfitted  your  force  or  tended 
to  impair  its  efficiency  in  the  execution  of  Congi'essional  work? 

Mr.  Stillixgs.  No,  sir;  on  the  contrary  I  believe  that  it  has  had  a 
good  effect;  that  it  has  encouraged  the  officers  in  their  endeavors  to 
keep  the  standard  of  the  Office  up,  and  that  it  has  shown  those  of  our 
weaker  brothers  that  they  must  come  up  to  the  proper  standard, 
which  would  natui'ally  result  in  closer  attention  to  business  and  better 
quality  and  increased  (|uantity  of  production.  Several  experienced 
master  printers  from  different  parts  of  the  countr}^  have  visited  the 
Office  and  many  of  them  have  been  previous  visitors  there. 

I  believe  they  are  honest  in  their  o})inions  expressed  to  me  to  the 
efl'ect  that  there  is  now  greater  attention  paid  to  the  work  in  hand  and 
less  curiosity  to  size  up  visitors;  and  while  that  might  perhaps  be  con- 
strued, in  a  way,  as  being  said  to  please  me,  I  have  the  further  proof 
in  that  the  general  output  of  the  Office  has  been  very  much  laiger. 
Noticeably  on  the  Congressional  work  it  has  been,  according  to  our 
records,  three  times  larger  than  for  any  single  session  of  the  Fifty- 
eighth  Congress.  So  far  as  the  departmental  work  goes,  I  have  not 
the  data  l)efore  me,  but  I  do  know  that  we  have  been  extremely 
busy,  and  that  we  have  handled  a  greater  volume  of  business  and  that 
without  the  necessity  of  putting  on  as  many  temporary  compositors  as 
we  have  had  to  put  on  in  past  years  and  without  any  additions  to  our 
regular  force. 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  you  any  system  in  vogue  there  that  would  enable 
you  to  compare  the  qnalit}^  and  quantity  of  the  work  turned  out  with 
that  of  previous  sessions? 

Mr.  Stillixgs.  Not  as  thorough  a  system  as  I  propose  to  have:  no, 
sir.  There  is  a  general  way  of  averaging  it,  but  not  close  enough  to 
permit  me  to  make  a  statement  at  this  time.  1  l)elieve  in  the  course 
of  the  next  sixty  days  I  can  make  a  fairly  reliaV)le  comparative  state- 
ment as  to  the  general  output  of  the  Office. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  are  proposing,  then,  to  inaugurate  a  system  that 
will  enable  you  to  keep  a  thorough  check  on  all  the  operations? 

Mr.  Stillings.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  quite  a  long  and  tedious  operation, 
but  it  can  be  done,  and  1  projiose  starting  it  very  shortl}\ 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  3'ou  been  cognizant  of  any  complaints  from  Con- 
gress since  you  have  taken  charge  of  the  Office,  as  to  inferiority  in  the 
work;  and  if  so,  what  steps  have  you  taken  to  remedy  the  conditions 
complained  of? 


42  PRINTING    OF    BILLt^    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Stit.lings.  Referring-  to  the  Congressional  work,  there  have 
been  two  minor  matters  l)rouoht  to  my  attention  by  two  of  the  oth- 
oials  connected  with  the  Senate.  Botli  of  tiiose  matters  had  1113'  per- 
sonal attention,  and  they  were  so  small  that  they  appeared  to  merit 
no  reprimand  from  me.  hut  rather  a  caution  to  our  messengers  and 
those  in  charge  of  the  ])ills,  to  exercise  the  greatest  amount  of  prompt- 
ness in  delivery.  Those  matters  occurred  somewhat  earl}'  in  m}' 
administration,  and  no  repetition  of  those  complaints  have  ever  been 
brought  to  my  attention.  1  have  taken  occasion  to  inquire  whether 
there  was  any  ground  upon  which  such  complaints  could  be  founded 
and  I  could  get  no  positive  statement,  or  even  a  general  statement, 
that  there  was  anything  that  did  not  compare  favorably  with  previous 
years. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  are  familiar,  of  course,  with  the  complaint  made 
in  the  Senate  on  the  closing  day  of  the  session  as  to  the  difficulty  Con- 
gress had  experienced  in  getting  work  back  from  the  Printing  Office. 
Will  you  express  3'ourself  on  that? 

Mr.  Stjllings.  Inmiediately  after  that  statement  appeared  in  the 
press  on  Sundaj^  morning,  Julv  1.  I  visited  the  Office  and  took  up  the 
matter  with  the  chief  clerk  and  foreman  of  printing  and  the  subfore- 
man  in  charge  of  the  enrolled  bills.  I  found  that  according  to  our 
records  the  Office  had  done  all  it  possibly  could  do;  that  it  was  guilty 
of  two  or  three  errors  in  proof  reading,  which  are  not  to  be  unexpected 
or  really  possible  to  avoid,  owing  to  the  rushed  condition  of  the  Office, 
and  very  many  other  conditions  that  eveiy  printer  understands. 

After  going  over  the  matter  fully  I  called  upon  Senator  Hale  and 
went  over  the  matter  with  him;  and  after  expressing  the  regrets  of 
the  Office  for  the  inconvenience  caused  to  the  Senate,  I  further  stated 
that  a  superficial  examination  seemed  to  show  that  our  Office  could  not 
have  done  better  than  it  did,  barring  the  errors  in  proof  reading,  which 
I  Avas  personally  perfectly  willing  to  forgive,  because  our  men  are  only 
human;  and  they  had  done  such  extremely  good  work  all  through  the 
session  that  it  was  not  at  all  surprising  that  some  slight  error  might 
creep  in  among  the  proof-reading  force.  On  further  examination  I 
found  that  those  errors  which  were  on  the  Government  Printing  Office 
force  had  not  really  occasioned  any  delay  in  the  completion  of  the 
work,  because  of  other  alterations  made  necessary  by  the  order  of  the 
enrolling  force  of  the  House.  Therefore  I  can  not  see  where  at  any 
point  the  work  w^as  delayed  even  five  minutes  by  the  Government 
Printing  Office. 

Mr,  Howe.  The  errors  in  proof  reading  that  you  refer  to  you  think 
did  not  operate  to  greatly  delay  the  work? 

Mr.  Stillixgs.  No,  for  the  reason  that  Avhile  the  other  pages  were 
being  read  by  the  enrolling  clerk  these  pages  in  question  had  been 
corrected  and  substituted  before  thev  had  completed  the  examination 
of  the  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  How  about  the  efficiency  of  your  proof  reading  force? 

Mr.  Stillings.  I  believe  that  with  very  few  exceptions  thev  are  a 
most  efficient  class  of  men.  Of  course  it  is  not  possible  to  assign 
proof  readers  on  bill  work  who  have  never  had  experience  and  expect 
them  to  have  the  same  grasp  of  the  subject  that  3'ou  would  expect  of 
men  who  have  been  through  one  season  or  more  of  that  work.  Great 
care  was  exercised  in  the  selection  of  the  proof  readers.  Those  men 
had  alread}"  had  a  very  strenuous  experience  in  the  present  session,  so  that 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  43 

1  do  not  feel  that  an}^  excuse  that  might  be  made  for  a  orccii  proof 
retider  on  the  ehiss  of  work  that  was  entrusted  to  them  would  have 
any  hearing-  on  the  ease.  Tliese  men  were  experienced,  and,  in  my 
opinion,  such  errors  as  they  made,  wliiK'  they  are  to  he  depU)red.  are 
not  to  he  covered  over  or  glossed  over  for  a  minute.  They  are  mis- 
takes, and  those  are  the  chances  that  every  printer  has  against  him, 
whetiier  in  the  (Tovernment  service  or  in  a  connnercial  house. 

The  chances  of  errors  in  proof  reading  are  very,  very  marked,  and  it 
is  well  known  that  a  proof  reader,  no  matter  how  cai-eful  he  may  be, 
though  he  may  go  over  the  proof  three,  four,  and  even  five  times, 
will  pass  the  same  error  without  noticing  it.  For  some  reason  that  is 
unexplained,  the  eye  fails  to  convey  to  the  brain  the  fact  that  there  is 
an  error;  and  yet  the  second  proof  reader,  who  may  not  be.  perhaps, 
as  competent  as  the  tirst  one  along  general  lines — that  is,  he  ma^'  not 
be  as  good  a  giannnarian — will  discover  that  error. '  That  is  one  of 
the  weak  points  in  the  business  which  has  to  be  safeguarded  with  the 
utmost  care. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  is  simply  a  case  of  human  fallibility,  then? 

Mr.  Stillixgs.  That  is  the  idea.  It  can  not  be  overcome.  You  do 
not  know  when  it  is  going  to  occur,  and  30U  have  to  look  out  for  it 
and  safeguard  yourself  as  well  as  you  can.  If  errois  then  occur,  the}" 
are  attributed  to  the  general  condition  of  things,  and  you  do  the  best 
you  can  to  overcome  them  as  you  find  them  out. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  looking  over  the  remarks  in  the  Kecoid  on  this  sub- 
ject, I  notice  that  a  certain  Senator  sought  to  excuse  the  Printing  Office 
for  the  alleged  delays  on  the  ground  that  you  were  ill  and  unable  to  be 
present.  I  should  like  to  ask  3'ou  whether  your  force  is  lacking  in 
discipline  to  such  an  extent  that  your  absence  would  result  in  their 
going  to  pieces,  as  it  were,  or  whether  you  consider  it  essential  to  the 
good  management  of  an  establishment  of  that  kind  that  the  Public 
Printer  should  personally  be  pi'esent  every  moment  of  the  time? 

]\lr.  Stillixgs.  While  I  appreciate  the  kindly  thought  on  the  part 
of  the  vSenator  who  presented  that  side  of  the  case,  at  the  same  time 
that  would  not  hold  good  from  a  purely  Inisiness  standpoint,  because 
the  test  of  thorough  organization  and  of  the  abilitv  of  the  head  of  the 
house  to  place  the  right  men  at  the  vitals  of  the  business,  comes  when 
he  is  away.  When  the  head  of  the  house  is  absent  every  well-man- 
aged business  should  go  on.  Whether  the  head  of  the  house  is  absent 
or  some  other  cog  in  the  wheel  is  missing,  it  should  still  be  so  well 
organized  that  it  goes  on  just  the  same. 

I  maintain,  without  claiming  any  credit  myself  except  for  recogniz- 
ing a])ility  where  1  found  it,  that  the  Government  Printing  Office  has 
proceeded  in  the  last  few  weeks  on  just  as  thorough  lines  as  if  I  had 
been  there.  Every  ])oint  has  l)een  safeguarded  and  watched  with  the 
utmost  fidelity.  So  far  as  an}'  necessity  for  my  being  there  personally 
is  concerned,  outside  of  the  technical  necessity  of  putting  mv  signature 
to  checks  for  the  payment  of  funds,  there  has  been  none.  The  same 
thoroughness,  the  same  care,  the  same  watchfulness  has  been  exhi})ited 
at  all  points,  so  that  the  work  of  the  Office  is  to  day  right  up  to  date, 
right  up  to  this  particular  date,  as  compared  with  previous  3'ears. 
Nothing  has  suffered  because  of  my  absence. 

Mr.  Howe.  Actually,  you  were  not  absent  continuously  during 
those  latter  days  of  the  session,  were  3'ou  \ 


44  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Stillings.  Ko,  sir.  During  the  last  week  of  June  theie  were 
a  great  inaii}^  matters  which  should  have  lieen  closed  up  in  the  latter 
part  of  ]\Jav,  had  I  ))een  able  to  be  at  the  Office;  l)ut  I  had  been  feel- 
ing (juite  pooi'ly  for  some  days  previous  to  giving  up  active  work, 
and  much  work  had  j)ilod  up  there  which  reall}'  made  it  necessary  for 
me  to  be  there.  1  either  had  to  handle  it  at  my  home  or  go  to  the 
Office,  and  in  view  of  the  fact  that  my  physician  thought  I  could  do 
so  without  serious  injury,  and  that  it  would  be  much  more  convenient 
for  the  officers  at  the  (xovernment  Printing-office  to  have  me  there 
rather  than  to  be  constantl}'  traveling  up  to  my  home,  I  made  it  a 
point  to  be  there  for  at  least  six  hours  a  day  on  every  day  during  the 
last  week  in  fhine,  except  Saturday,  when  I  knew  everybody  would 
be  extremely  busv  and  naturally  on  the  jump  to  close  up  the  tail  ends 
of  printing  for  Congress, 

Largely  because  of  that  one  feature,  because  I  knew  that  a  great 
many  Senators  and  Representatives  would  be  leaving  town  and  many 
of  them  wanted  to  see  me  personally;  and  for  their  convenience  as 
well  as  the  satisfaction  of  being  on  the  ground  myself,  I  reached  the 
Office  at  10  o'clock  in  the  morning  and  I  did  not  leave  there  until  7.30 
o'clock  in  the  evening,  and  then  only  on  the  assurance  of  the  officials  in 
charge  that  every  request  of  Congress  had  beencomplied  with  right  up 
to  the  minute.  And  on  investigation  1  found  that  the  statements  made 
to  me  by  those  officers  were  a)>solutely  correct. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  there  any  possil)ility  under  your  system  that  depart- 
mental or  other  work  would  encroach  upon  Congressional  work? 

Mr.  STiLLiX(iS.  No,  sir;  for  the  reason  that  even  if  I  were  not  dis- 
posed to  take  the  initiative  in  the  matter,  the  officials  in  charge  of  the 
various  departments  of  the  Office  are  too  well  posted  upon  the  neces- 
sities of  Congress  to  allow-  me  to  make  such  an  error  as  that.  It  is 
understood  that  Congressional  work  has  the  right  of  way  over  every- 
thing. That  was  the  primary  reason  for  establishing  the  Government 
Printing  Office,  and  1  have  never  lost  sight  of  that  from  the  first 
moment  I  took  charge  of  it.  It  has  been  my  especial  care  that  noth- 
ing should  take  precedence  over  Congressional  work,  either  day  or 
night.  That  is  understood.  It  is  the  unwritten  law  of  the  Office  that 
the  decks  are  clear  for  Congressional  work  alwa3\s,  and  that  if  there 
is  a  choice  l^etween-  the  two,  the  Congressional  work  has  the  right 
of  way. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  absolutely  the  case  ? 

Mr.  Stillings.  That  is  absolutely  the  case. 

Mr.  How^E.  Mr.  Stillings,  would  this  bill  work  be  regarded  in  a 
private  enterprise  as  high-grade  printing'^ 

Mr.  Stillings.  No,  sir;  as  regards  quality  it  would  be  ranked  with 
a  very  ordinary  class  of  commercial  work  or,  compared  with  book- 
work,  with  the  most  ordinary  class  of  bookwork. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  it  of  a  character  that  admits  of  what  you  might  call 
extreme  expedition? 

Mr.  Stillings.  Yes,  sir;  the  nature  of  the  w^ork  and  the  method  of 
handling  it  is  such  that  our  Office  can  handle  it  with  extreme  haste 
and  with  a  maximum  amount  of  correctness  and  thoroughness;  but  it 
would  not  l^e  possible  to  take  that  same  work  to  any  commercial  plant 
of  which  I  have  any  knowledge,  imless  they  were  trained  Very  care- 
fully and  very  thoroughly,  and  expect  to  get  the  work  with  the  same 
accuracy  and  the  same  [promptness  that  you  would  get  it  from  the 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  4:5 

Government  Printintr  Office.  I  have  been  in  this  business  all  my  life, 
and  1  have  marveled  at  the  thoroughness  and  pi'omptness  with  which 
that  work  was  handled.  There  has  always  seemed  to  ))e  as  thorough 
an  appreciation  of  the  needs  of  Congress  at  oui"  end  of  the  line  as  was 
shown  by  the  (derks  at  the  other  end  of  the  line,  at  the  Capitol,  and 
that  has,  in  my  opinion,  done  much  to  enable  our  Office  to  give  prompt 
service. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  gathered  from  something  that  was  said  the  other  day 
that  your  bill  force  there  sometimes  assume  almost  editorial  functions. 

Mr.  Stillings.  I  have  been  informed  by  officials  in  charge  of  this 
work  that  the}'  have  many  times  foreseen  the  probable  action  of  Con- 
gress and  have  taken  chances  on  that  action,  and  have  gone  ahead  and 
produced  the  work. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  was  not  referring  so  nuich  to  the  matter  of  anticipa- 
tion, because  that  is  a  practice  which  is  as  old  as  the  Office,  1  pre- 
sume; but  I  gathered  that  sometimes  something  comes  over  to  you 
so  carelessl}'  prepared  as  to  be  apparently  erroneous  and  that  in  such 
cases  your  men  assume  to  make  the  necessary  corrections. 

Mr.  Stillixgs.  We  call  the  attention  of  the  proper  officers  at  the 
Capitol  to  the  cases;  if  we  did  not  do  so  we  would  l)e  compelled  to  go 
all  over  our  work  a  second  time.  That  is  where  the  ex]:)ei'ience  of  the 
men  and  the  officers  count.  It  saves  more  time  to  Congress  than 
would  be  realized  unless  a  record  were  kept  of  it. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  You  are  generally  familiar  with  the  line  of  inquiry  that 
the  committee  made  the  other  day — Saturday^  Do  you  feel  that  the 
amount  of  time  consumed  by  the  Office  in  returning  to  the  Capitol  the 
matter  regarding  which  complaint  has  been  made  was  reasonable  from 
the  Office  standpoint? 

Mr.  Stillings.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  it  was  remarkably  expeditious  and 
if  any  comment  were  to  be  made  upon  it  at  all  it  would  be  that  the 
work  was  done  so  quickly. 

Mr.  Howe.  There  was  a  statement  made  by  Captain  Brian  the  other 
day  regarding  some  expressions  from  Mr.  McKenney,  the  enrolling 
clerk  of  the  House,  to  the  elt'ect  that  the  work  of  the  Printing  Office 
had  been  as  expeditious  as  usual,  and  it  appears  that  Mr.  McKenney 
had  been  asked  to  make  the  same  statement  to  you.  Did  he  make  any 
expression  to  you  on  that  subject? 

Mr.  Stillin(js.  Yes,  sir;  I  feel  at  perfect  liberty  to  quote  Mr. 
McKenney,  because  he  made  this  statement  for  the  express  purpose 
of  bringing  some  comfort  to  those  of  us  who  were  so  much  exercised 
over  the  proposition.  It  was  to  this  eti'ect:  That  the  enrolling  force 
of  the  House,  when  the  volume  of  matter  was  turned  over  to  them  to 
be  put  in  shape,  realized  that  thef  Imd  more  than  they  could  do  in 
several  hours,  and  Mr.  McKenney  told  me  that  he  made  the  state- 
ment earl}^  in  the  day  that  it  would  not  be  possible  to  get  those  bills 
in  shape  so  that  Congress  could  adjourn  before  10  o'clock  at  night. 
He  further  stated  that  the  service  of  the  Oovernment  Printing  Office 
had  been  noticeably  prompt  and  correct  all  through  this  session,  and 
that  a  grave  injustice  had  been  done  the  Government  Printing  Office 
in  accusing  it  of  having  any  part  whatever  in  the  alleged  dela}'  in 
completing  the  enrolling  of  those  bills. 

He  f  urtiier  said  that  no  reasonable  cause  of  delay  could  be  assigned 
to  anj'body,  for  the  reason  that  he  and  the  enrolling  committee  had 
been  worked  to  the  limit  to   get  the  work  through  promptly  and 


46  PRINTING    OF    KILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

correctly',  aiul  tliat  they  could  not  have  done  it  ai\y  more  quickly  or  any 
more  coi-rcctly  in  less  time  than  they  took;  and  that  our  Otijco  was 
perfectly  helpless  in  the  matter,  because  we  could  not  print  the  sheets 
necessary  to  complete  the  work  until  they  gfave  them  to  us,  and  they 
had  to  take  the  necessary  time  to  o-o  through  the  work  and  be  sure 
that  such  changes  as  appeared  to  be  necessavy  were  actually  necessar}^ 
before  ordering  us  to  make  them. 

Mr.  Howe.  As  I  understand  it,  there  was  an  error  in  the  enrollment 
of  the  sundry  ciyil  bill  which  produced  some  consternation,  and  I  sup- 
pose when  Mr.  McKenney  came  to  the  point  of  enrolling  the  public 
buildings  bill  he  took  particular  pains  to  make  his  enrollment  yery 
carefully  and  yery  thoroughly,  so  as  to  ayoid  a  repetition  of  that 
error. 

Mr.  Stillings.  Mr.  McKenney  stated  that  he  did  not  read  that  bill. 
I  understood  from  him  that  it  was  read  by  the  Committee  on  Enrolled 
Bills,  and  when  the  bill  was  turned  oyer  to  him  he  asked  what  about 
that  paragraph  and  was  informed  that  it  was  all  right  and  should 
remain  in  the  bill,  and  the  Goyernment  Printing  Office  was  ordered  to 
print  it  that  way  and  did  print  it  that  way. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  only  allude  to  the  error  in  the  sundry  ciyil  bill  to 
elucidate  the  probable  fact  that  Mr.  McKenney  was  extra  cautious  in 
enrolling  the  later  bills,  so  as  to  ayoid  a  repetition  of  the  error. 

Mr.  Stillings.  He  stated  with  reference  to  that  bill  that  he  had 
called  attention  to  those  items  liimself. 

Mr.  Howe.  Any  in(|uiry  into  that  error  in  the  sundry  ciyil  bill  of 
course  would  rather  transcend  the  scope  of  this  inyestigation,  except 
as  it  might  haye  some  bearing  upon  Mr.  McKenney's  subsequent  caution. 

Mr.  Stillings.  A  little  further  than  that,  Mr.  Howe,  if  I  may  be 
permitted  to  suggest  it:  This  bill  has  in  the  mind  of  the  public  itself 
and  I  think  in  tiie  minds  of  a  great  manj''  Senators— — 

Mr.  Howe.   You  are  speaking  of  the  sundry  ciyil  bill!' 

Mr.  Stillings.  Yes,  sir;  this  l)ill  is  indirectly,  at  least,  connected 
with  the  public  buildings  l)ill.  I  think  that  was  the  name  of  the  last 
bill  in  (iuestion,and  thegeneral  inference  has  been — and  Imay  say  that 
that  has  been  the  impression  on  my  mind  since  Sunday  morning,  July 
1 — that  there  were  two  l)ills  in  ([uestion,  and  that  where  one  might 
haye  been,  perhaps,  oyerlooked  and  nothing  much  made  of  it,  at  the 
same  time  that  somewhere  along  the  line  the  Goyernment  Printing 
Office  had  failed  to  make  good  on  that  bill  as  well  as  on  the  other,  and 
that  there  must  be  a  badlj^  disorganized  condition  of  affairs  at  the 
Goyernment  Printing  Office  to  haye  l)rought  about  any  such  results. 
On  inyestigation  of  that  particular  bill — the  sundry  ciyil  bill — I  found 
that  our  Office  was  in  no  way  to  lUame,  nor  do  I  understand  that  any- 
one familiar  with  the  facts  charged  this  error  to  our  Office. 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Stillings,  where  do  you  draw  the  line  in  your  exer- 
cise of  the  editorial  function? 

Mr.  Stillings.  In  a  case  of  this  kind  we  absolutely  follow  copy 
literally,  unless  we  saw  what  looked  like  an  error,  when  we  would 
conmmnicate  with  the  proper  official  and  raise  a  question,  as  any  good 
printer  will  do  who  has  his  customer's  best  interests  at  heart,  proyided 
he  saw^  what  he  supposed  to  be  a  mistake.  At  the  eleyenth  hour,  with 
eyerybody  on  the  jump  and  Congress  waiting,  and  with  clearly  marked 
proof  in  hand  to  go  ahead,  we  would  not  be  warranted  in  doing  that 
unless  we  thought  that  an  error  had  been  made.     Of  course,  under 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  47 

these  eoiuiitioii!?,  it  would  be  a  moriil  obligation  on  us  to  protect  Con- 
gToss  and  the  otticials  in  charge. 

Mr.  Young.  May  1  add  a  few  words!' 

]\lr.  Stillinos.   Yes;  so  far  as  I  am  concerned. 

Mr.  Youn(t.  The  point  is  this,  in  t'oHowing  copy  on  bills,  that  after 
the  bill  is  once  re})orted,  the  (jrovernnient  Printing  OtKce  is  entirely 
powerless  to  make  any  changes.  That  is  the  point  we  follow  literally. 
We  can  call  attention  to  the  proof,  but  after  the  bill  is  once  reported, 
or  enrolled,  or  engrossed,  we  are  powerless  to  make  any  change 
whatever. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  where  you  draw  the  line^ 

Mr.  Young.  Yes,  sir;  it  then  becomes  the  law  of  the  House.  A 
bill  is  only  a  bill,  but  when  it  becomes  an  act  we  have  no  right  to 
make  any  change  whatever. 

Mr.  HowK.  Is  there  anything  nu)re  along  these  general  lines  that 
you  care  to  say,  Mr.  Stillings^ 

Mr.  Stillings.  No.  sir. 

]\Ir.  Howe.  I  would  like,  to  ask  Captain  Brian  and  Mr.  Y'oung  one 
or  two  questions,  now  that  they  are  here.  We  undertook  to  trace  the 
other  day,  vou  know,  the  public  buildings  bill  and  the  general  deti- 
ciency  bill  ( 

Mr.  Young.  Y^es. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  had  it  in  mind  that  one  of  the  elements  entering  into 
the  delay  concerned  this  little  deficiency  bill,  which  was  passed' after 
the  public  buildings  bill,  to  carry  into  eft'ect  the  provisions  of  the  pub- 
lic l)uildings  bill,  and  you  gentlemen  corrected  me  on  that  and  said 
that  the  criticism,  in  vour  judgment,  related  to  the  general  deficiency 
bill. 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  right,  sir. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Is  it  not  the  fact  that  after  the  passage  of  the  public 
buildings  bill  this  supplemental  deficiency  bill  was  taken  up  and  passed 
by  both  Houses,  and  was  it  not  a  fact  that  the  necessity  of  acting  upon 
that  measure  had  something  to  do  with  delaying  the  adjourmnent  of 
Congress? 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  a  question  that  I  do  not  know  about,  Mr. 
Howe.     We  only  printed  that  twice,  I  think. 

Mr.  HoAVE.   What  is  the  number  of  that  bill? 

Captain  Brian.  H.  R.  20511.  It  appears  that  they  passed  that 
while  they  were  waiting  for  the  public  buildings  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  you  anything  there  that  would  show  the  time 
when  you  received  the  cop}-  on  that  bill  20511,  ]NJr.  Y'oung? 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.  It  was  received  at  1.50  o'clock  on  Saturday  afternoon. 
There  was  no  number  on  that  l)ill.   - 

Mr.  Howe.  There  was  no  number? 

]Mr.  YounCt.  There  was  no  number  at  that  time. 

]Mr.  Howe.  It  came  to  you  at  1.5(»  o'clock 

Mr.  Young.  At  1.50  o'clock,  without  a  number.  The  Office  tele- 
phoned for  a  number,  and  the  copy  was  returned  to  Mr.  McKenney  at 
his  request  for  correction.  That  made  a  delay  of  about  forty-five 
minutes,  and  then  a  new  copy 

^Ir.  Howe.  Just  wait  a  moment.  That  first  copv  that  you  received, 
which  was  sul)sequently  corrected  by  the  addition  of  the  nnml)er,  was 
the  bill  as  it  passed  the  House,  was  it' 

Mr.  Young.  That  is  20511,  for  enrollment. 


48  PRINTING    OE'    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Captain  Brian.  For  (Miorossnienti' 

]\Ir.  YouNc.   For  ciigro.ssinent;  yes. 

Mr.  IIowE.  When  did  you  return  it  after  having  received  it  the 
second  tiine^ 

Mr.  YouxG.  It  was  delayed  about  fortj^-five  minutes.  Then  the 
new  copy  with  full  typewritten  pages  was  furnished,  with  orders  not 
to  cut  the  copy. 

i\Ir.  Howe.  At  what  time? 

Mr.  Young.  With  orders  not  to  cut  the  copy.  The  copy  was  to  be 
kept  intact  and  not  to  be  cut.  That  made  it  a  yery  bad  job  for  a  printer 
to  handle.     That  was  sent  to  press  at  4.30  in  the  afternoon. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  was  at  the  expiration  of  the  forty-fiye  minutes? 

Mr.  Y^ouxg.  About  forty-live  minutes  after  it  had  l)een  received 
at  1.50.     That  would  make  it  probabl}^  2.35. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  then  it  rested  in  your  Office  until  when? 

Mr.  Y^ouNG.     Until  4.30. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  amount  of  time  consumed  at  your  Office  was  deter- 
mined somewhat  b}"  the  instructions  you  got  regarding 

Mr.  Young.  The  cutting  of  the  copy. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  nuitilation  of  the  copy? 

]Mr.  Y'ouNG.  Yes,  sir.  That  was  a  2t)-page  bill,  and  it  took  about 
two  hours. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then,  of  course,  it  presumably  went  to  the  Senate? 

Mr.  Young.  It  went  to  the  Senate  and  was  then  sent  down.  We 
did  not  even  wait  for  that. 

Mr.  Howe.  Y"ou  have  not  anything  there,  have  \'ou,  to  show  when 
it  went  to  the  Senate  ? 

Mr.  Young.    No,  sir;  that  is  determined  ))y  the  House. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  there  a  Congressional  Record  that  would  throw  any 
light  on  the  subject — Saturday's  Record? 

Captain  Brian.  I  do  not  think  we  have  one  here,  Mr.  Howe. 

Mr.  Stillings.  I  think  there  is  one  there. 

(A  copy  of  the  Congressional  Record  of  Saturda}-,  June  30,  1906, 
was  produced  and  handed  to  Mr.  Howe.) 

Mr.  Howe.  Here  it  is.  There  was  a  recess  at  1.55,  followed  by 
considera))le  debate,  and  then  Senator  Kean  moved  that  a  recess  be 
taken  until  7  o'clock,  and  we  can  only  guess  at  the  time. 

Captain  Brian.  It  was  about  5  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  Very  likely  it  was  about  5  o'clock,  as  you  sa}'.  Captain 
Brian.  Then  came  a  message  from  the  House  announcing  that  the 
House  had  passed  the  bill  H.  R.  20511,  making  appi'opriations  for 
certain  pul)lic  buildings  authorized  by  the  act  approved  June  30,  IIHX), 
and  so  forth,  which  was  inunediately  considered  and  passed  in  the 
Senate,  and  the  Senate,  at  6  o'clock  and  IT  minutes,  took  a  i-ecess. 
Now,  when  did  you  get  it  after  that? 

Mr.  Young.   We  did  not  wait  for  any  enrollment  copy  at  all. 

Mr.  Howe.  After  the  Senate  passes  it  it  goes  back  to  the  House, 
does  it,  for  enrollment? 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.   Y"es;  for  enrollment. 

Captain  Brian.  AUev  the  Senate  passes  that  it  is  the  procedure,  I 
believe,  that  the  Senate  notifies  the  House  the}'  have  passed  that  bill 
without  amendment,  and  that  would  then,  as  soon  as  the  House  takes 
action  on  it,  throw  it  on  the  enrolling  clerk  for  enrollment,  and,  if  I 
ma}^  continue,  in  the  meantime  we  had  enrolled  the  bill. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLi^    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  49 

Mr.  Howe.  Anticipating- it^ 

Captain  Brian.  We  had  enrolled  it  on  faith.  We  had  it  enrolled. 
What  time  did  3'ou  say  it  passed  the  Senate,  alnnit^ 

Mr.  Howe.  It  passed  the  Senate 

Captain  Brian.  Before  the  7  o'clock  recess,  was  it  not? 

^Ir.  Howe,  It  passed  the  Senate  just  befoj'e  the  recess  at  (5  o'clock 
and  IT  minutes. 

Captain  Brian.  And  at  5  o'clock  and  49  niiiuites  we  sent  that  parch- 
ment copy  to  the  Capitol.  1  do  not  think  vou  can  show  anv  dehi}'  on 
that  bill. ' 

Mr.  Young.  Nobody  charged  anything  on  that  one.  That  was  kept 
in  the  background  so  thoroughly  that  nobody  knew  an3'thing  about  it. 
^    Mr.  Stillings.   We  ought  to  have  a  rebate  on  that  one.     [Laughter.] 

Mr.  Howe.  I  have  heard  about  a  stenographer  who  was  so  expert 
that  when  the  judge  completed  his  charge  to  the  jury  the  stenographer 
was  300  words  ahead  of  him.     [Laughter.] 

Mr.  Young.  That  shows  just  how  that  work  can  be  advanced  when 
the  Senate  passes  a  bill  without  amendment.  We  knew  that  it  was 
correct.  We  knew  it  was  all  right,  and  we  could  put  it  on  the  press 
and  print  it  the  minute  we  knew  it  was  passed  by  the  Senate  without 
amendment;  but  if  that  bill  had  had  a  dozen  or  two  dozen  amend- 
ments— for  instance,  like  the  20410  bill  had — it  would  have  come  down 
from  the  Capitol  and  would  have  gone  to  the  proof  room,  and  after 
being  corrected  and  read  would  have  been  printed:  but  this  was  all 
anticipated.  There  were  no  errors,  and  Ave  knew  there  were  no  errors, 
and  we  went  ahead  with  the  bill.  That  is  wh}-  it  was  delivered  on 
such  shoj't  notice. 

Captain  Brian.  You  mean  there  were  no  amendments — not  errors. 

Mr.  Young.  I  mean  there  were  no  amendments.     Change  that. 

^Ir.  Howe.  Mr.  Young,  the  other  day  you  had  in  your  hand  a  little 
statement  setting  forth  the  procedure  of 

Mr.  Young.  The  bill  work? 

Mr.  Howe.  The  bill  work. 

Mr.  Young.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  I  should  like  to  get  that  into  the  record. 

Mr.  Young.  1  will  read  it  to  you,  if  you  wish. 

Mr.  Howe.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Young.  This  covers  the  appropriation  bill.  As  a  genei'al  thing 
A\  0  call  them  supply  ])ills.  This  public  buildings  bill  would  probal^ly 
go  in  that  category,  although  it  does  not  go  before  an  appropriation 
committee.  When  a  suppl}^  bill  is  first  received  from  the  House  it  is, 
as  a  general  rule,  printed  confidentially  for  the  subcommittee.  It  is 
then  printed  confidentiall}'^  for  report  to  the  full  committee.  After 
changes  are  finally  made  by  the  full  committee  it  is  given  a  number 
and  reported  to  the  House.  After  consideration  of  the  bill  by  the 
House  it  is  printed  in  engrossed  form  on  blue  paper  for  the  House, 
and  in  turn  again  printed  on  white  paper  for  the  Senate,  carrying  the 
action  of  being  referred  to  the  proper  committee.  It  is  then  printed 
for  the  use  of  the  Senate  as  reported  l)y  the  conunittee. 

After  being  passed  b}'  the  Senate,  the  changes  are  indicated  in  a 
separate  print  called  the  engrossed  amendments  of  the  Senate.  These 
amendments  are  numbered,  and  when  referred  to  the  House  the  bill 
proper  is  ordered  printed  with  the  numbered  amendments  of  the  Sen- 
ate.    From  this  print  the  enrolling  clerks  make  up  the  copy  for  the 


I 


50  TRINTINO    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 


[r,Yoi 


,dli 


oiirollod   hill,  which   is  then  printed  on  purchnicnt,  and,  after  Ix 
sii>ned  hy  the  i)residing  officers  of  both  Houses,  and  finalh'  by 
President  of  tlu^  rnitcHJ  States,  it  is  printed  as  a  public  law,  whicl[i.Mo 
the  liiial  disposition  until  it  is  enil)o(lied  in  the  Statutes.  Kk. 

That  covei's  the  usual  run  of  appropriation  bills.  We  frequenir, lo 
have  two  or  three  sul)conunittee  prints  and  two  or  three  full  commit  thert 
])rints  ]){>fore  they  finally  oet  i-eady  to  report  the  lull.  |ii 

Mr.  Howe.  Those  are  private  prints!'  %. 

j\Ir.  Y()UN<;.  Those  are  private  pi-ints.     They  have  the  first,  secojil 
third,  and  fourth  prints,  until  they  get  it  finally  in  such  shape  t  [i.\t 
they  wish  to  report  it 

Mr.  Howe.    To   recur  to   that  g'eneral   deficiency  bill,   numbeifereai 

20403 ■  ir.H' 

Ijvd 


n 


Mr.  YouNo.  The  general  deficiency  bill,  or  the  public  buildings  b 

]Mr.  Howe.  The  general  deficiency  bill  ^ 

Mr.  Young.  That  was  numbered  20403. 

J\Ir.  Howe.   You  said  the  other  day  that  the  engrossed  amendmej 
were  received  at  10  o'clock  a.  m.   on  Fridav  and  were  returned 
11.30.  jjiose 

Mr.  Young.  Y'es,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  As  I  understand  it,  that  is  the  form  in  which  it  pasil 
the  Senate? 

Mr.  Young.  Those  are  the  engrossed  amendments  by  the  Senat  ^ 
the  ])ill;  3'es,  sir.  That  is  printed  on  white  writing  paper  in  this  f(  'i 
[indicating]. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  3"ou  say  that  the  official  copy  for  the  numbe 
amendments  was  received  at  2.3.5,  and  it  w^as  in  the  office  less  thai^ 
hour  ? 

Mr.  Young.  The  copies  were  delivered  in  less  than  an  hour,  ye 

Mr.  Howe.  What  cop}^  is  that!'  That  is  the  form  in  which  it  ^ 
agreed  to  b}'  the  House  ?  . 

Mr.  Young.  That  is  the  form  in  which  it  is  printed  for  the  H< 
with  the  amendments  of  the  Senate  numbered,  in  this  form  [indicati 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  it  goes  to  the  conference.     That  is  the  next  s 
is  it  not? 

Mr.  Y^ouNG.  It  goes  to  the  conference  then. 

Mr.  Howe.  When  did  it  come  back  to  you  again? 

Mr.  Young.  On  this  print,  it  comes  back  in  enrolled  form.  j 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  you  anything  to  show  when  it  came  back  to 
in  enrolled  form  ?     I  do  not  think  that  was  touched  on  the  other  di  | 
and  1  want  to  complete  the  record. 

IVIr.  Y'ouNG.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  know.    .  j 

Mr.  Morgan.  It  came  back  about  9  o'clock — between  9  and  |[ 
o'clock — on  Friday  night,  and  we  delivered  it  about  3  o'clock  in  tl  f 
morning,  on  Saturday  morning.  It  was  some  time  in  the  morning 
I  think  about  3  o'clock — that  we  delivered  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is,  Saturday  ? 

Mr.  Morgan.  That  was  Saturday  morning  at  3  o'clock.  The  m< 
sengers  were  going  up  all  night. 

Mr.  Young.  We  are  speaking-  of  Friday's  work  throughout  t 
bill.     This  is  all  Frida^^'s  w'ork  that  we  are  talking  about  now. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  know,  but  my  inquir}^  was  not  as  full  the  othei 
as  I  wanted  it  to  be. 


ill' 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  51 

r.  Younct.  That  was  delivered  in  the  evenino-  and  enrolled  during- 
fnioht  when  I  was  home. 

r,  Morgan.   We  received  it  at  night,  soinetiiiie  between  0  and  10 

)ck.     It  came  right  after  the  agricultural  l)ill. 

r.  YouxG.  I  know  that  the  tirtst  thing  1  asked  in  the  morning  was 
'ther  this  bill  had  been  enrolled  or  not,  and  they  said  it  had  been, 

had  been  delivered. 

r.  Howe.  There  was  no  particular  reason  for  haste  at  that  hour, 

'i 


[v.  Young.  Only  that  the  enrolling  clerks  were  waiting-  for  it. 

t  is  a  very  large  bill— one  of  the  general  supply  bills — and  it  has 

e  read;  it  has  to  be  run  over. 

Howe.  Then  the  time  consumed  between  9  and  10  o'clock  on 

lay  night,  and  3  o'clock  on  Saturday  morning,  was  not  an  unusual 

jumption  of  time^ 

r.  Young.  No,  sir. 

r.  Morgan.  The  bill  was  not  reached,  you  know,  because  we  had 

unber  of  bills  in  there  being-  printed  during-  the  evening.     As  fast 

lose  supply  bills  came  in  we  went  ahead  with  them.     We  had  about 

foi-ms  on  Frida}'  and  during  the  night,  and  they  were  delivered 
rirday  morning-  by  5   o'clock.      Every  bill  was  delivered   a   few 

utes  after  5. 

Howe.  The  amount  of  time  consumed  in  the  Printing  Office  in 

lling  that  general  deficiencj'  bill,  actually,  did  not  invite  criticism? 

r.  Morgan.  No. 
I  r.  Howe.  Because  Congress  was  not  in  session  at  the  time. 
•.  Morgan.   We  were  rushing  all  those  bills  for  the  use  of  the 
nitt  '6,  although  we  did  not  rush  them  to  the  extent  that  we  do 

ng  the  day  when  Congress  is  in  session.     What  we  wanted  to  do 

jto  keep  the  enrolling  clerks  busy,  and  they  did  not  have  to  call 

ng  the  entire  night  for  bills  to  read.     They  have  to  read  all  the 

'  we  send  out,  and  our  aim  was  to  keep  them  busy  all  the  time; 

ley  did  not  have  to  wait  on  the  Office  for  bills  to  I'ead. 

III'.  Howe.  They  had  the  general  deticiency  bill,   then,  in  ample 

■  for  the  use  of  Congress  next  day  ? 

r.  Morgan.  Yes,  sir. 
ir.  Young.  The  controversy  arose,  virtually,  over  this  very  print 

they  received  in  less  than  an  hour's  time  from  the  Printing  Office, 
mse  of  our  anticipation  of  it. 

aptain  Brian.  That  was  the  print  with  the  numbered  amendments, 
[r.  Young.  That  was  the  print  the  conference  committee  was  wait- 
ifor. 

[r.  Howe.  That  was  received  at  2.35  and  delivered  at  3.25  p.  m. 
Friday  ? 

[r.  Young.  Yes,  sir;  that  was  the  print  over  which  there  was  con- 
'ersy,  if  there  was  any  controversy  over  an}-.     Certainly,  so  far  as 

hearing-  of  the  controversy  was  concerned,  it  was  only  hearsay. 
[r.  Howe.  I  want  to  get  a  little  more  clearly  in  mind  the  facts  con- 
ling  the  criticism  the  Senator  made  when  he  said  that,  with  respect 

certain  bill  under  consideration  by  the  Committee  on  Appropria- 
iS,  they  waited  and  waited,  and  finally  had  to  go  to  work  and  con- 
•r  an  old  print,  having  nothing  more,  in  order  to  transfer  their 
!ndments  to  the  new  print.  You  think  that  was  the  general  deti- 
cv  bill. 


52  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Yolxo.  I  do  not  think  it  could  have  been  aii\'  other  ])ill,  Ijecause 
the  Appropriation  Coiiiniittoo  lia.s  nothino-  whatever  to  do  with  the  pul)- 
lic  huildinii's  hill,  from  what  I  understand. 

C'a])tain  Bi;ia\.  That  was  the  hill,  Mr.  Howe,  because  they  asked 
tor  that  hill  just  about  that  time. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  am  not  (juite  clear  as  to  why  the  Committee  on  Appro- 
priations were  waiting-  for  that  print  in  order  to  work  on  it. 

Captain  Brian.  It  was  for  the  conference  committee,  Mr.  Howe. 
The  conference  committee  wanted  it. 

Mr.  HowK.  Oh,  the  conference  committee. 

Mr.  Young.  They  wanted  to  make  their  report. 

Captain  Brian.  The  conference  committee  wanted  to  work  on  that, 
sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  day  was  that,  do  you  think? 

Captain  Brian.  That  was  Friday. 

^Ir.  HoAVE.  What  were  the  facts  about  it?  What  operated  to  delay 
their  gettino-  the  print  they  wanted  to  consider? 

Captain  Brian.  Nothing.  After  the  Senate  passed  that  bill  the 
amendments  had  to  be  engrossed. 

Mr.  Howe.  By  the 

Captain  Brian.  By  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  Senate,  and  trans- 
mitted to  the  House. 

Mr.  HfjWE.   Messaged  over  ^ 

Captain  Brian.  Messaged  over — that  the  Senate  had  passed  this  bill 
with  the  following  amendments.  Then  the  House  had  to  take  action 
and  order,  this  copy  printed  with  the  numbered  amendments.  Then 
the  Clerk  of  the  House,  Mr.  Matlack,  had  to  pi'epare  that  copy  and 
send  it  to  the  Printing  Office.     It  reached  the  Printing  Office  at  2.85. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  to  say,  all  this  had  to  be  done  before  the  con- 
ferees could  get  the  print  that  they  wanted^ 

Captain  Brian.  All  this  had  to  be  done  between  the  time  the  Sen- 
ate passed  the  bill  and  the  time  the  conferees  could  have  a  copy  of  it. 

Mr.  HoAVE.   I  see 

Captain  Brian.  Let  me  complete  the  statement,  if  you  please.    ThM 
copy  reached  the  Printing  Office  at  2.35.     In  the  meantime  we  ba€ 
anticipated  and  had  gone  to  press  with  it,  and  we  delivered  the  copies] 
at  3.25. 

Mr.  Howe.   Yes.     Now,  gentlemen,  is  there  anything  to  show  whenjj 
that  passed  the  Senate  i 

Mr.  ]\IoKGAN.  It  passed  the  Senate  Thursday  night. 

Mr.  Howe.  About  when  ( 

Mr.  Mor(;an.  I  do  not  remember  just  what  time  it  passed,  but  I 
know  it  passed  Thursday  night  l)efore  the}"  adjourned. 

Mr.  Howe.    When  did  you  get  the  engrossed  copy? 

Mr.  MoRXiAN.  The  advanced  engrossed  copy  came  to  the  Office  that 
night,  and  Mr.  Piatt  wanted  to  know  when  he  could  receive  the  proof 
on  it.  Mr.  Dierken  told  him  he  could  receive  the  proof  about  11 
o'clock. 

Mr.  HoAVE.   Eleven  o'clock  at  night?  ; 

Mr.  Morgan.  About  11  o'clock  at  night. 

Mr.  Young.  That  was  June  28. 

Mr.  ^Morgan.  Mr.  Piatt  telephoned  doAvn  that  the  Senate  was  going 
to  adjourn  and  to  send  the  proof  up  next  morning-.  We  sent  it  to  him 
next  mornino-  at  8.25. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  53 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Yoiuig  said  the  enorossod  uiiieiidinents  to  this  hill 
were  received  at  10  o'clock  ]>.  iii.  on  Friday  and  returned  at  11.30. 

Mr.  MoR(iAN.   We  sent  out  the  proof  at  S.'i5. 

Captain  Brian.  He  is  talkino-  about  the  proof  of  the  bill.  This  was 
the  proof  that  he  sent  to  Mr.  Piatt  at  S.'2:>.  That  was  the  proof  that 
was  sent  to  him.  and  we  have  his  copy  here  to  show  that  he  had  not 
completed  his  work  on  it  yet  and  that  he  added  quite  a  number  of 
inserts  to  it.  That  was  the  copy  that  was  delivered  to  them  at 
11  o'clock  which,  as  Mr.  Home  said  on  Saturday  last,  they  did  not 
get  until  11  o'clock  the  next  day.  I  would  like  to  show  you  that 
proof. 

]\lr.  HoAVE.  Yes,  1  want  to  get  clearly  elucidated  all  the  facts  in 
this  connection. 

Mr.  Young.  1  am  right  glad  that  you  are  taking  such  an  interest 
here,  Mr.  Howe,  because  there  are  lots  of  things  that  the  (xovernment 
Printing  Office  does  not  get  credit  for. 

^Ir.  IlowE.  My  function  is  to  get  the  facts;  that  is  all. 

Captain  Brian.  Here  is  the  proof  that  was  sent  to  Mr.  Piatt  at 
8.25,  about. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  the  morning? 

Captain  Brian.  In  the  morning. 

Mr.  Howe.  Copy  for  which  you  received  the  night  before? 

Captain  Brian.  The  night  before. 

Mr.  Howe.  At  about  what  tinie^ 

Captain  Brian.   About  11  o'clock. 

Mr.  Morgan.  It  was  received  about  9  o'clock,  and  Mr.  Piatt  was 
told  he  could  get  a  proof  on  that  bill  at  11  o'clock.  That  bill  was 
reported  on  Thursday,  and  we  printed  it  in  the  afternoon  so  that  they 
could  have  it  at  8  o'clock  to  take  it  up  and  consider  it. 

Captain  Brian.  It  was  sent  to  ^Nlr.  Piatt  at  S  o'clock  Friday  morn- 
ing— 8.35  o'clock — and  these  [indicating]  are  the  additions  that  he 
made  to  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  He  made  additions  and  returned  it  to  you  at  10  o'clock. 
There  seem  to  be  al)out  twenty  changes  in  it. 

Captain  Brian.  There  is  another  thing  that  I  want  to  call  attention 
to.  There  [indicating]  you  see  there  was  a  mistake  made  by  some  one 
in  numbering  those  amendments.  There  we  had  to  catch  it  up,  and 
advance  all  his  numbers  from  that  point. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  All  of  Avhich  consumed  time:' 

Captain  Brian.  All  of  Avhich  consumed  time.  In  justice  to  Mr. 
Piatt,  I  Avant  to  explain  how  this  copy  is  prepared.  Mr.  Piatt  goes 
along  and  prepares  these  anjendments  from  time  to  time  and  sends 
them  to  us,  and  gets  proof  of  them.  As  the  Senate  proceeds,  he  puts 
on  more  amendments  and  gets  the  further  proof,  so  as  to  be  that  much 
ahead.  He  had  got  this  far  ahead  [indicating]  when  the  Senate  passed 
the  bill,  and  after  that  he  had  to  put  the  others  on  to  complete  his 
copy.     He  Avas  anticipating.     He  does  that  right  along. 

Mr.  Young.  I  Avould  like  to  saA'that  there  is  nothing  unusual  in  his 
sending  that  copy  down  in  the  evening  and  receiving  the  proof  of  it 
in  the  morning  at  all,  because  that  is  clone  right  along. 

Captain  Briax.  Here  is  the  copy  that  afterwards  came  doAvn  from 
the  House.  It  had  to  have  all  these  amendments  in  the  Senate  [indi- 
cating]. If  Ave  had  had  to  Avait  for  this  copy  it  Avould  have  been  G  or 
7  o'clock  before  thev  would  ha\'e  received  it. 


54  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    ATSD    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  lIowE.  The  fact  i.s  that  your  .S3'.stcm  of  anticipation  greatl}^ 
facilitates  the  work  of  the  House? 

Captain  Brian.  It  greatl}^  facilitates  the  work,  and  often  the  Senate 
does  not  know  how  much  time  it  takes  after  the  time  they  pass  a  bill 
before  the  House  gets  ready  to  furnish  the  copy  with  the,  numbered 
amendments.  Frequently  when  the  House  is  not  in  session  at  night, 
and  the  Senate  passes  a  bill,  the  Senate  orders  it  printed  with  the 
numbered  amendments.  You  can  see  how^  much  time  would  have  been 
consumed  if  we  had  had  to  wait  for  their  copy,  and  had  had  to  put  all 
these  in  [indicating]. 

Mr.  YouNCJ.  I  haye  time  and  again  prepared  a  bill  with  numbered 
amendments,  and  sent  it  into  the  proof  room  before  the  official  copy   ; 
was  finished.    We  had  it  in  our  proof  room  before  the  official  copy  was  | 
finished  l)y  Mr.  Matlack.  '  | 

Captain  Brian.  You  see  the  mnn  making  up  this  bill  has  the  num- 
bered amendments  before  him  and  this  page  28  [indicating]  perhaps 
would  be  page  40  on  the  bill  with  the  numbered  amendments,  but  his 
copy  would  read  "on  page  28,  after  line  25,  insert."  He  has  got  to 
find  where  this  is  and  insert  it.  You  can  not  go  right  ahead  and  do  it. 
You  have  got  to  learn  how,  first. 

Mr.  Stillings.  That  is  where  a  man  new  on  the  job  would  get  all 
mixed  up.  If  he  did  not  know  just  what  he  was  doing  he  would  get 
pretty  thoroughly  tied  up. 

Mr.  YouNCi.  How  in  the  name  of  common  sense  would  anybody  or 
any  printing  establishment  get  out  a  96-page  job  like  that  inside  of 
sixty  minutes  without  doing  the  work  as  we  are — by  anticipating  it? 

Mr.  Howe.  It  could  not  be  done;  that  is  perfectly  apparent.  How 
many  amendments  are  there  in  that  bill?  I  belieye  you  told  me  the 
other  day,  but  I  do  not  remember. 

Mr.  Young.   Do  you  refer  to  the  public  buildings  bill? 

Mr.  How^E.  No;  the  general  deficiency  bill. 

Mr.  Young.  The  general  deficiency  bill  has  ninety-fiye  amendments. 
When  a  man  tackles  a  job  like  that  one,  he  has  got  to  keep  his  wits 
about  him  and  keep  at  it.  If  he  does  not,  he  will  fall  down.  There 
is  not  a  man  on  the  work  that  does  not  know  exactly  what  is  expected 
of  him,  and  he  does  the  work  for  all  he  is  worth  from  the  minute  he 
starts  until  he  gets  through.  If  he  does  not  make  good  in  the  first 
two  or  three  hours  on  that  kind  of  a  job,  he  neyer  goes  on  it  again, 

Mr.  Spottswood.  Where  is  that  legislatiye  bill  that  went  out  so 
quickly — just  to  show  the  time  consumed? 

Mr.  Hc^wE.  Mr.  Spottswood,  what  is  jonv  position  in  the  Printing 
Office  i  ^ 

Mr.  Spottswood.  Assistant  foreman  of  printing. 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  you  had  any  conversation  with  Mr.  Piatt  about 
the  delays  in  the  handling  of  this  general  deficiency  bilH 

Mr.  Spottswood.  Only  this,  that  Mr.  Piatt,  before  he  left  the  city, 
called  to  say  good-l)y  at  the  house,  and  while  he  was  there  I  took 
occasion,  you  know,  to  ask  him  about  this  bill  business,  and  he  said 
that  he  regretted  the  criticism  that  had  been  made,  since  the  work  of 
the  Printing  Office  had  l^een  expeditious,  and  that  no  more  than  a 
proper  amount  of  time  had  been  consumed  b}'  those  who  handled  the 
measure  in  perfecting  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  you  know  where  Mr.  Piatt  is? 


PKINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  55 

Mr,  SroTTSWOoi).  He  is  ut  Woodniont.  Conn. 

Mr.  Howe.   I.s  he  expected  back  here  to-morrow  i 

Mr.  Spottswoou,  Yes;  he  did  say  that  he  would  be  back  hereafter 
two  or  three  da\'s.     1  guess  that  is  so. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  ascertained  at  his  apartments  to-day  tiiat  he  woukl  be 
back  to-morrow 

Mr.  Spottswood.  He  did  say  he  would  be  back  in  two  or  three 
days. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  1  have  sent  a  letter  to  his  apartments  and  also  to 
his  office  asking-  him  to  give  me  an  opportunity  to  question  him  on 
Thursda3\  I  will  dela}"  my  departure  for  New  York  until  that  time 
in  order  to  question  Mr.  Piatt,  whose  expressions  on  this  subject  will 
be  important. 

Mr.  Spottswood.  I  recollect  now  that  his  wife  said  the  same  thing, 
that  he  expected  to  be  back  in  two  or  three  days,  and  thatr  then  they 
would  go  away  for  the  summer. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  ma}^  to-morrow,  question  some  of  the  employees  of 
the  Senate  who  have  to  do  with  the  handling  of  these  bills. 

Mr.  Stillings.  If  there  are  any  of  our  employees  that  3'ou  want  to 
question  about  these  bills,  or  about  any  other  matter  m  connection  with 
this  subject,  they  are  at  your  disposal. 

Mr.  Howe.  1  feel  that  the  committee  has  covered  the  matter  from 
the  Printing  Office  standpoint  pretty  thoroughly.  The  only  thing  the 
inquiry  now  appears  to  lack  is  some  first-hand  testimony  from  attaches 
of  the  House  and  Senate. 

Mr.  Stillings.  Of  course  this  point  comes  to  us,  or  comes  to  me, 
perhaps,  more  particularlv,  that  although  we  feel  pleased  at  having  a 
clean  record,  so  far  as  our  efforts  go,  at  the  same  time,  if  I  had  been 
well  and  on  my  feet,  I  think  I  should  have  made  a  special  point  of 
being  at  the  Capitol  myself,  and  to  have  had  Captain  Brian  or  Mr. 
Young  with  me.  so  that  in  the  closing  hours  of  the  session  I  might 
have  been  right  on  the  ground,  and  there  might  possibly  have  been 
some  things  that  we  could  have  helped  along,  and  thus  saved  the  Office 
being  put  in  a  bad  light.  If  I  am  at  the  Office  during  another  session 
of  Congress,  that  will  be  the  lesson  taught  me  by  this  business  here, 
that  we  owe  it  to  Congress,  and  to  the  Office,  to  have  every  possible 
prevention  for  trouble  adopted. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  suppose  if  some  one  from  your  Office  having  authority 
to  speak  had  been  on  the  ground,  it  would  have  been  a  convenience  to 
Congress  in  the  matter  of  fixing  the  responsibility  for  these  alleged 
delays^ 

Mr.  Stillings.  Unquestionably.  Then,  another  thing  is  this:  As 
far  as  we  are  concerned,  I  can  say  for  the  Office,  as  well  as  for  myself, 
that  if  there  are  any  shortcomings  of  the  Office  we  want  to  know  them, 
and  should  know  them,  in  order  to  have  them  corrected.  It  is  a  mat- 
ter of  pride  with  us  that  this  work  is  kept  right  up  to  the  top  notch. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  is  this  bill  you  have  handed  me,  Mr.  Young — 
H.R.  14971? 

Mr.  Young.  That  has  nothing  to  do  with  this  inquiry.  It  simply 
shows  in  what  short  time  we  do  work  with  some  of  these  jobs  that  look 
almost  insurmountable  when  they  come  to  the  Office. 

Mr.  Howe.  This  is  a  bill  to  "revise,  codify,  and  amend  the  laws 
relating  to  the  judiciaiy.     It  consists  of  399  pages."    I  notice  that  \-ou 


k 


56  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

have  a  notation  on  here  '"Commenced  after  12  p.  m.,  when  other  work 
was  finished,  and  delivered  next  morning,"  Do  3^011  mean  that  you 
set  it  u])  and  delivered  it  ^ 

Mr,  Young.  We  made  it  up,  and  set  it  up,  every  line.  We  made 
it  up,  read  it,  and  printed  it. 

j\Ir.  8tiulings.  How  many  copies^ 

Mr.  Young.  Six  hundred  and  forty-tive. 

]\lr.  MoHGAx.  Seven  hundred  and  seventy-three,  Mr.  Young. 

Mr.  YouN(j.  Seven  hundred  and  seventy-three.  Is  that  the  new 
number^ 

Mr.  Moh(;an.  Y"es. 

Mr.  Stillings.  I  do  not  know  of  a  commercial  shop  that  could 
handle  that  job. 

^Ir,  Spottswood.  There  is  an  enrolled  copy  of  the  legislative  bill 
[indicating']. 

]Mr.  Young.  I  have  one  here  that  calls  for  a  little  bit  more  trouble- 
that  is,  in  the  nature  of  the  make-up.  If  you  will  look  at  that  bill,  and 
let  a  printer  examine  it 

Mr.  Howe.  This  is  the  post-otfice  appropriation  bill^ 

Mr.  Young.   Yes;  that  is  the  committee  print. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  is  there  significant  about  this? 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.  The  nature  of  the  bill,  the  make-up  of  it,  the  ditferent 
kinds  of  type  used  in  it,  the  side  notes  in  it,  the  size  of  the  paper 
on  which  it  is  printed,  etc. 

Mr.  Stillings.  And  side  stitching,  too.  That  is  a  harder  bill  to 
print.     It  requires  more  men  and  more  care. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  see  there  is  a  variety  of  t.ype  used  in  it. 

Mr.  Stillings.  And  there  is  more  presswork  in  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  it  seems  to  be  statistical.  I  see  on  here  a  notation. 
"Copy  received  after  midnight;  connnenced  about  1  o'clock  and 
delivered  9  a.  m." 

Mr.  Young.  Y"es,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  a  very  creditable  piece  of  work. 

Mr.  Young.  I  want  to  show  you  one  thing  about  that  work  that 
possibl}'  you  did  not  notice.  We  keep  up  the  uniformity  of  paging  as 
it  was  originally  in  the  l)ill.  Starting  here,  and  running  down  to  here, 
we  made  that  page  2,  and  that  page  2 — this  much,  and  that  much,  and 
that  nuu'h  [indicating]  was  in  the  original  bill.  That  runs  to  page  4, 
and  so  on,  showing  the  different  changes.  There  is  page  3  [indicating], 
page  3  continued,  page  3  continued,  page  3  continued,  page  3  con- 
tinued. All  of  this  matter  that  you  see  on  here  constitutes  what  was 
on  page  3  of  the  bill,  with  the  notes  and  tables,  showing  what  the 
changes  were  made  for,  and  what  the  last  year's  law  was,  or  whatever 
the  thing  ma}'  be.  I  do  not  know  just  what  these  tables  are,  as  they 
are  put  in  by  the  clerks  of  the  committees. 

The  make-up  on  a  job  like  that  is  something  awful.  These  side 
notes  have  to  be  added  later  on.  Certainly,  you  do  not  see  them, 
because  they  are  not  there,  but  the  make-up  of  that  page  has  to  be 
just  the  same  as  the  one  that  is  tilled  in.  You  notice  that  most  of  that 
was  small  type.  All  these  were  put  in  by  the  clerk — that  tabular 
matter.  He  gives  every  page  of  that  bill  in  probably  two,  three,  and 
four  pages,  if  you  will  notice.  Whatever  way  it  strikes,  when  you 
come  to  the  end  of  that  page  you  close  oil'  on  it  and  then  take  up  the 
next  page  at  the  top. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  57 

That  i.s  one  of  tho  moatiost  bills  a  man  can  handle.  I  have  another 
one  here  tiiat  is  a  straightaway  job.  That  jol)  will  bi'ino-  the  state- 
ment of  Captain  Brian  on  last  Saturday  and  my  statement  a  little 
closer  together  than  they  appeared  to  be  at  the  time.  I  was  asked 
how  lontj  a  time  it  would  take  me  to  get  out  a  hundred-page  bill,  and 
I  said  between  three  and  a  half  and  foui-  hours,  and  Captain  Brian  said 
that  he  would  g-aml)le  that  he  could  do  it  in  two  hours. 

^Ir.  Howe.  Provided  it  was  so  constituted  that  he  could  distrilnite 
it  into  small  takes. 

Mr.  YouxG.  Yes.  There  is  one  that  we  got  out  in  that  time,  but  I  can 
explain  why  it  was  done  in  such  short  time.  The  l)ill  had  been  dis- 
tributed, and  the  House  document  room  ran  out  of  copies.  I  received 
word  from  them  to  print,  I  forget  how  many  copies — 1  think  a  couple 
of  hundred,  though.  1  told  them  the  type  was  distributed  and  that 
it  would  entail  an  expense  of  probably  |300  to  reprint  that  bill,  and 
I  did  not  think  we  were  justified  in  doing-  it.  I  w^as  told  that  the  bill 
was  under  consideration  and  the}'  had  to  have  it.  I  called  up  Mr. 
Ricketts.  the  clerk  of  the  Committee  on  Printing  of  the  House,  and  I 
told  him  I  did  not  think  I  had  any  authorit}'  to  work  under,  to  print 
that  bill.  He  said.  "  Well,  you  go  ahead  and  print  it,""  so  I  got  m}' 
authority  from  him  direct.  That  was  straightened  out  between  the 
House  docuxnent  room  and  the  House  Committee  on  Printing.  It  got 
to  be  1  o'clock  in  the  morning  before  I  got  through  wrestling  with  the 
subject  of  whether  1  would  or  would  not  print  it.  It  was  a  case  of  my 
trying  to  save  about  $300  for  the  Office,  or  of  setting  the  l)ill  up.  We 
started  it,  as  you  see  here,  after  1  o'clock,  and  the  force  quit  at  3.30, 
which  shows  that  they  went  home  at  3.30.  That  was  from  1  o'clock 
to  3.30  o'clock,  just  two  hours  and  a  half. 

]Mr.  Howe.  That  is,  a.  m.  ? 

Mr.  YounCt.  a.  m.;  that  is,  m  the  morning.  I  went  home  at  1 
o'clock.  That  morning  when  we  decided  to  print  it  I  stayed  in  the 
Office  until  1  o'clock,  and  at  3.30  o'clock  the  force  went  home,  and  the 
bill  was  in  the  press  room  at  that  time. 

Ml'.  Howe.  It  was  a  case  of  setting  up  the  type  for  the  V)ill  and 
printing  it  i 

Mr.  Young.  Ever}-  line  of  it,  in  two  hours  and  a  half.  This  is  180 
pages. 

]\Ir.  Howe.  Well,  you  do  very  cpiick  work  on  the  Congressional 
Record,  do  you  not  i 

ISIr.  Y^ODNG.  Y"es,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  that  what  you  would  call  high-grade  printing,  Mr. 
Stillings? 

Mr.  Stillixgs.  Of  its  class,  yes.  It  is  a  well-printed  publication 
of  its  class,  away  beyond  the  average  connnercial  job. 

Mr.  Howe.  Does  it  not  often  happen  that  the  Congressional  Record 
exceeds  100  pages  in  volume? 

Mr.  Stillings.  Here. is  one  of  June  28  with  1:21  pages.  There  is 
one  of  over  160  pages. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  What  is  your  record  on  that.  Captain  Brian!'  What  is 
the  record  of  the  Office? 

Captain  Brian.  The  i-ecord  of  the  Office  is  that  we  get  it  out  on 
time.     That  is  all. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  mean,  probably  there  have  been  cases  where  a  session 
of  Congress  has  extended  late  into  the  night,  and  it  has  been  necessar}' 


58  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

for  you  to  have  the  Conoiv.s.sioinil  Record  on  the  desks  of  Senators 
and  Menil)ers  on  the  following-  morning^ 

Captain  Briax.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  only  a  question  of  how  soon  the 
reporters  can  oet  the  copy  down  there,  Mr.  Howe. 

Mr,  Howe,  That  is  what  determines  the  time,  is  it? 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  what  determines  the  time. 

Mr.  Young,  I  have  a  little  bill  here  that  you  probably  remember 

Captain  Brian.  There  is  a  Record  of  160  pages. 

Mr,  Howe,  That  is  all  done  on  the  machines,  is  it  not? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stillings.  Yes,  sir;  entirely. 

Captain  Brian.  There  is  a  nice  little  index  to  the  Record,  of  600 
pages, 

Mr.  Howe.  But  there  is  never  any  particular  hurr}^  about  printing 
the  index? 

Captain  Brian.  No,  sir;  it  simply  goes  to  show  just  how  the  work 
is  done;  that  is  all. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  were  you  saying,  Mr.  Young? 

Mr.  Young.  I  said  that  I  had  a  little  bill  here  of  which  you  have 
probably  heard  before.  It  is  called  a  bill  to  regulate  commerce.  It 
is  true  it  consists  of  only  eight  pages,  but  that  bill  was  delivered  to 
the  Capitol  in  just  fifty  minutes. 

Mr.  Howe.  From  the  time  j'ou  received  it? 

Mr.  Young.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Morgan.  From  the  time  the  copy  left  the  Capitol. 

Mr.  Young.  Yes;  this  bill  was  delivered  to  the  Capitol  in  fifty  min- 
utes after  the  copy  left  the  Capitol. 

Mr.  Stillings.  That  allows  for  the  time  of  the  messenger  service 
each  way? 

Mr.  Young.  Yes;  that  would  take  off'  about  twelve  or  fifteen 
minutes. 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Spottswood  hands  me  a  copj-  of  House  Joint  Reso- 
lution 188,  containing  the  ordinary  heading  and  title  and  nine  lines, 
together  with  the  space  for  signatures,  which  seems  to  have  been  set 
up,  printed,  and  delivered  in  ten  minutes  after  the  receipt  of  the  copy. 
What  do  you  mean  by  delivered? 

Mr,  Spottswood.  The  parchment  copy  was  delivered  to  the  enroll- 
ing clerk. 

Captain  Brian.  And  it  left  the  office  in  that  time? 

Mr.  Spottswood.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  By  the  wa}',  I  spoke  to  Captain  Brian  and  Mr.  Young 
the  other  day,  Mr.  Stillings,  about  the  advantage,  if  any,  that  might 
result  from  the  installation  of  pneumatic-tube  service  between  the 
Capitol  and  the  Printing  Office.      \Vhat  is  your  notion  about  that? 

Mr.  Stillings.  1  should  think  it  would  be  a  good  thing  if  it  were 
done  on  a  broad  enough  scale,  so  as  to  cover  the  greatest  amount  of 
strain  that  is  likely  to  be  put  on  it,  in  sending  stuff'  back  and  forth.  I 
should  think  that  would  be,  on  the  surface  of  it,  a  good  thing,  but  it 
would  require  pretty  careful  looking  into,  because  our  messenger 
service  is  ver}^  thorough  and  very  complete. 

Captain  Brian,  It  would  depend  a  good  deal  on  where  the  copy 
landed  at  the  Capitol. 

Mr.  Stillings.  It  would  mean  that  we  would  have  to  have  messen- 
gers at  both  ends  of  the  line  to  distribute.     Still,  as  a  casual  proposi- 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  59 

tion,  without  close  examination,  1  should  thiiik  it  would  ])C  a  j^ood 
thing. 

]Mr.  SroTTSwooD.  What  wa.s  the  trouble  when  the^'  started  before:? 
What  was  against  it? 

Captain  Biuan.  It  was  impracticable  at  that  time  on  account  of  tiic 
grade. 

Mr.  Si'OTTSwooD.  The  grade  at  the  depot,  there  ( 

Captain  Brian.  Yes;  they  had  to  go  down  so  deep  the  other  side  of 
the  depot. 

Mr.  Stillixgs.   How  long  ago  was  that.  Captain? 

Captain  Brian.  I  will  have  to  Q;et  Mr.  Spottswood  to  tell  jou  that. 

Mr.  Stillings.  The  reason  1  ask  is  that  the  pneumatic-tube  service 
has  developed  wonderfully  in  the  last  few  years.  Long-distance  work 
has  become  very  successful. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  spoke  of  the  strain  to  which  it  might  be  subjected. 
How  would  that  compare  in  the  handling  of  your  business  with  the 
strain  that  is  imposed  upon  the  pneumatic-tube  service  between  the 
New  York  and  Brooklyn  post-offices? 

Mr.  Stillixgs.  I  should  not  think  there  would  be  any  comparison. 
OuMs  would  be  small  in  comparison. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  would  be  my  idea. 

Mr.  Spottswcod.  There  is  a  little  book  there  [indicating],  the  com- 
position of  which  was  done  in  less  than  three  da^s.  We  could  have 
done  it,  you  know,  in  a  great  deal  less  time  if  we  could  have  had  the 
copy,  but  we  printed  it  in  one  night,  and  that  was  sewed  by  hand  and 
delivered  next  morning — 300  copies.  It  went  to  press  in  the  after- 
noon and  was  printed  in  one  night. 

Mr.  Howe.  A  book  of  1,466  pages,  hearings  before  the  subcommittee 
of  the  House  Committee  on  Appropriations,  on  the  sundry  civil  bill. 

Mr.  Spottswood.  Yes;  just  to  show  you  the  way  we  do  work  there. 

Mr.  YoLTNG.  I  would  like  to  say  that  while  the  force  there  is  called 
the  night  bill  force,  that  bill  force  does  not  only  do  bill  work. 

Mr.  Howe.  Oh,  it  does  other  work^ 

Mr.  YouNCJ.  They  do  all  the  work  that  comes  down  there. 

Mr.  Spottswood.  This  [indicating]  came  in  one  day  and  was  deliv"- 
ered  the  next  day,  and  also  this  [indicating].  That  is  all  in  addition 
to  our  regular  work.  These  are  just  side  issues,  in  addition  to  hun- 
dreds and  hundreds  and  hundreds  of  pages  of  other  matter  in  the  way 
of  bills  and  documents. 

Mr.  Howe.  This  is  done  by  the  night  bill  force? 

Mr.  Young.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  This  is  entitled  "  Hearings  before  the  Committee  on  the 
Merchant  Marine  and  Fisheries  of  the  House." 

Mr.  Young.  Here  is  a  job  in  which  there  is  considerable  machine 
work. 

Mr.  Howe.  Hearings  before  the  Committee  on  the  Judiciary  of  the 
House.     You  say  this  is  machine  work?  -^ 

Mr.  Young.  Part  of  it. 

Mr.  Spottswood.  There  is  a  book  that  was  begun  on  ^londay  and 
finished  Wednesday. 

Mr.  Howe.  Hearings  before  a  special  committee  appointed  by  the 
Speaker  to  make  a  full  investigation  of  the  management  of  the  Gov- 
ernment Hospital  for  the  Insane. 


60  I'HINTING    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

^Ir.  Si>oTTS\V()oi).  All  thi.s  is  in  tuldition  to  the  other  matter  that  is 
runniiij^'  there  all  the  time. 

Mr.  MowE.  There  are  1,7 10  pages. 

Mr.  Si'OTTswooD.  That  is  just  one  little  book  that  we  u'ot  out  there, 
3'ou  know,  without  saying  much  about  it.  It  is  an  everyday  occur- 
rence.    That  is  just  to  show  you  the  way  we  do  the  work. 

Mr.  Young.  To  give  vou  an  idea  of  what  is  sent  down  to  the  press 
room  on  some  nights.  I  will  say  that  on  one  night  when  we  had  a  very 
large  bill  and  document  night  we  sent  down  23.5  forms  to  press. 

]\Ir.  Stillixos.  Of  eight  pages  each. 

Mr.  YouxG.  Eight  pages,  as  far  as  the  bills  were  concerned,  and  16 
pages  so  far  as  the  document  work  was  concerned. 

Mr.  Stillixgs.  I  would  suggest,  for  the  purpose  of  comparison, 
that  <he  state  printer  of  New  York  and  the  state  printer  of  Massa- 
chusetts would  be  good"  critics  of  the  service  that  the  Government 
Printing  Office  is  rendering,  because  they  have  the  same  strenuosity 
on  a  smaller  sjale;  and  I  would  welcome  any  examination  of  our  rec- 
ords of  the  service  here. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  imagine  it  will  not  be  necessary  to  go  into  the  matter 
as  deeply  as  that.  • 

Mr.  YouxG.  ^^^ould  you  like  to  see  three  or  four  bills  here  that  we 
have  handled  the  proof  on,  to  see  how  quickU"  we  g'et  the  proof  out? 

Mr.  Howe.  Just  state  the  facts  briefly. 

Mr.  Young.  There  is  a  report  of  House  bill  19814.  The  copy  for 
that  was  received  at  2.30,  and  the  proof  was  delivered  to  Mr.  Courts 
at  4.30 — 178  pages.  There  is  the  legislative  appropriation  bill,  copy 
for  which  w\as  received  at  12.30  and  the  proof  delivered  to  Mr.  Courts 
at  1.15.  That  consists  of  170  pages.  Here  is  the  District  of  Columbia 
appropriation  bill.  The  copy  was  received  at  1  o'clock  and  the  proof 
was  delivered  to  Mr.  Courts  at  2.2(>.  That  consists  of  !>6  pages. 
Here  is  the  urgent  deficiency  appropriation  bill,  of  which  the  proof 
was  delivered  to  Mr.  Courts  in  10  minutes — 52  pages. 

The  Committee  (at  5.15  o'clock  p.  m.)  adjourned,  subject  to  notice. 


Committee  on  Printing,  United  States  Senate, 

Washington^  D.  6'.,  July  11^  1906 — 3  odock2>-  tn. 
Met  pursuant  to  notice. 

Present:  Mr.  Albert  H.  Howe,  representing  the  Committee  on 
Printing. 

Also  Captain  Brian,  Mr.  Young,  Mr.  Morgan,  ]\Ir.  Ansel  Wold, 
Mr.  W.  A.  Smith,  and  others. 

STATEMENT    OF    ANSEL  WOLD,  BILL   INDEX    CLERK,   OFFICE    OF 
THE  SECRETARY  OF  THE  UNITED  STATES  SENATE. 

Mr.  Howe.  ]\Ir.  Wold,  will  you  state  your  full  name  and  the  posi- 
tion 3'ou  occupy  i 

Mr.  Wold.  My  full  name  is  Ansel  AYold,  and  my  position  is  that 
of  bill  index  clerk  of  the  Senate.  I  keep  the  history  of  all  bills,  as 
taken  from  the  Senate  Journal. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  (31 

Mr.  Howe.  Will  you  describe  to  the  committee  the  nature  of  your 
duties  ( 

Mr.  W'oLi).  I  keep  track  of  all  the  hills  that  are  introduced  in  the 
Senate  and  all  bills  that  come  over  from  the  House,  and  kee})  a  detailed 
statement  of  evei'v  action  taken  on  any  bill  in  the  Senate. 

Mr.  Howe.   Either  Senate  or  House  bills ^ 

Mr.  Wold.  House  bills  that  come  over  to  the  Senate  for  action. 

Mr.  Howe.  Are  your  records  in  such  shape  that  you  could  indicate 
the  time  that  bills  are  received  from  the  House,  for  instance,  or  the 
time  when  they  were  introduced  and  referr(>d  to  your  desk  in  the 
Senate  ( 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes;  on  the  day.  I  can  tell.     1  can  specify  the  day. 

]Mr.  Howe.  You  do  not  keep  a  permanent  record  of  tlie  time^ 

Mr.  AVoLD.   Yes,  sir;  but  not  l\y  clockwork,  3'ou  understand. 

Mr.  Howe.  But  jon  make  notations,  do  you? 

Mr.  Wold.  I  have  a  card  systeuL  I  make  an  entry  of  the  paoe  of 
the  Journal  On  which  the  Senate  takes  an}'  action  on  a  bill,  and  by  refer- 
rino-  to  that  page  the  date  is  ascertained.  This  is  printed  at  the  close 
of  the  session,  and  put  in  with  the  Journal  proceedinos. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  you  ought  to  be  in  a  position  to  give  the  history, 
as  it  were,  of  almost  any  bill  under  consideration!' 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  A  ci'iticism  was  made  in  the  Senate  as  to  delays  in  the 
handling-  of  bills  during  the  latter  days  of  the  session,  and  that  criti- 
cism seemed  to  center  about  two  bills— one  the  general  deficiency  bill, 
and  the  other  the  so-called  public  buildings  l)ill.  The  Senator  who 
made  the  criticism  in  alluding  to  the  general  deticiency  bill  said  that 
the  connnittee  on  conference  had  to  wait  a  good  wdiile  for  a  print  of 
that  bill,  and  that  tinally  they  had  to  take  an  old  print  and  work  on 
that.  Now,  the  testimony  that  has  l)een  gathered  thus  far  would  indi- 
cate that  the  general  deticiency  bill  passed  the  Senate  on  the  evening- 
of  Thursday,  the  2Sth  of  June.  That  testimony  also  would  show  that 
the  engrossed  copy  of  that  bill,  coming,  I  presume,  from  ^Nlr.  Piatt's 
desk,  reached  the  Printing  OtHce  that  night,  and  an  inquiry  w-as  made 
by  Mr.  Piatt  as  to  when,  he  could  receive  the  proof  on  it.  He  was 
told  that  he  could  have  the  proof  about  11  o'clock.  Now,  right  in 
this  connection,  and  before  I  get  to  the  point,  it  does  not  appear  at 
just  what  time  that  night  you  got  that  engrossed  copy.  Captain  Brian. 
Can  you  tell  that,  exactly  or  approximately? 

Captain  Brian.  We  received  the  engrossed  copy  when,  Mr.  Morgan; 
do  you  know  i 

Mr.  jNIorgax.  Wait  a  minute;  I  have  a  note  of  it.  The  engrossed 
copy  { 

Mr.  YouxG.  The  engrossed  amendments  of  the  deficienc}'  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  what  I  mean. 

Mr.  Morgan.  They  were  received  at  the  Office  betw^een  8  and  9 
o'clock. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Between  8  and  9  o'clock;  and  Mr.  Piatt  asked  when  he 
could  receive  the  proof,  and  he  was  told  ii-bout  11  o'clock.  He  then 
telephoned  down  that  the  Senate  was  about  to  adjourn  and  that  he,  Mr. 
Piatt,  was  going  home,  and  that  he  would  l)e  satistied  to  have  the  proof 
the  next  morning.  The  proof  was  accordingly  sent  to  him  the  next 
morning  at  8.25.     Ho w^  does  that  correspond  with  your  information  ? 

Mr.  Wold.  Well,  now,  that  8  and  9  o'clock  reference  that  is  niade 


62  TRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

is  true.  In  the  ease  of  an  a})propriation  l)ill,  being  reported  as  printed, 
in  italics — the  reported  bill — Mr.  IMatt  I  know  has  usually  pre})ared  all 
the  reported  amendments  that  arc  pending  in  the  bill,  thinking  that 
they  will  pass  without  any  question,  and  then  if  there  are  any  amend- 
ments inserted  on  the  tloor  of  the  Senate  he  has  to  add  them  to  the 
proof. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  that  operates  to  delay  his  work,  of  course? 

Mr.  WoLU.  Yes,  that  operates  to  delay  his  work.  The  deticiency 
bill  was  amended  on  the  tloor  of  the  Senate,  and  I  think  you  will  tind, 
or  I  think  the  Printing  Office  officials  will  find,  that  they  did  not  get 
the  complete  copy  of  the  amendments  on  the  deficiency  bill  until  1  or 
half  past  1  o'clock  that  night. 

Mr.  Howe.  How  is  that,  Mr.  Morgan? 

Mr.  Morgan.  If  my  memor}-  serves  me  right,  we  had  the  reported 
copy  of  that  ))ill  in  the  afternoon.  They  said  the}'  wanted  to  con- 
sider the  bill  at  8  o'clock,  so  Mr.  Piatt  could  not  commence  to  work  on 
his  amendments  until  quite  late.  Immediately  after  he  received  the 
reported  copy  he  started  to  w^ork  on  it,  and  sent  his  copy  to  the  Office. 
There  were  about  four  pages  of  inserts — amendments  put  in  on  the 
floor  of  the  Senate. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  that  was  the  matter  you  got  about  8  o'clock. 

Mr.  Morgan.  That  was  the  matter  that  we  received  at  10  o'clock  on 
the  next  morning. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  was  the  matter  that  you  received  at  8  o'clock  that 
night  ? 

Mr.  Morgan.  The  amendments  that  were  reported  in  the  bill,  as 
reported  to  the  Senate;  but  there  were  amendments  put  in  the  bill  that 
passed  the  Senate  that  were  not  reported  in  the  bill,  you  see. 

Captain  Brian.  May  I  say  that  that  was  the  matter  that  1  showed 
you  j-esterday,  Mr.  Howe,  with  those  amendments  in  it.  I  have  the 
copy  here  now,  if  3^ou  wish  to  see  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  recall  the  copy  you  showed  me.  The  point  I  want  to 
get  out  is,  what  concern  did  the  Printing  Office  have  in  this  copy 
before  it  actually  passed?  My  information  is,  in  other  words,  that 
the  bill  passed  the  Senate  on  the  evening  of  Thursda}-,  and,  as  I  under- 
stand your  testimony,  you  received  the  engrossed  copy  on  the  night 
of  Thursday  about  8  o'clock. 

Captain  Brian.  So  far  as  Mr.  Piatt  had  it  readv. 

Mr.  Howe.  So  far  as  Mr.  Piatt  had  it  ready? 

Mr.  Morgan.  That  is  the  point. 

Captain  Brian.  So  far  as  he  was  able  to  ascertain  what  the  amend- 
ments were. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  was  the  obstructton  to  his  knowing  exact!}'  what 
the  amendments  were  after  the  bill  had  passed? 

Mr.  WoLu.  Excuse  me,  l)ut  the  general  deficienc}'  bill  did  not  pass 
the  Senate  until  Thursday  night  about  a  quarter  of  10,  or  within  the 
next  half  hour  thereafter.  I  can  not  say  positively.  The  copy  that 
the  Government  Printing  Office  received  at  8  o'clock  consisted  of  the 
amendments  that  Mr.  Piatt  prepared  from  the  reported  print  copy 
that  came  up  at  8  o'clock.  And,  l)y  the  way,  1  might  as  well  add  that 
I  got  the  reported  print  of  the  deficiency  bill  that  evening.  They 
took  a  recess  until  8  o'clock,  and  at  8  o'clock  the  bills  were  on  the  desks 
of  Senators. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  63 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Then  the  stuff  that  Mr.  Piatt  sent  down  u})out  8  o'clock 
was  in  the  nature  of  an  anticipation  of  what  the  Senate  would  do^ 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Why  should  he  ask  when  he  could  get  it  hack  ( 

iSIr.  AVoLD.  1  will  tell  you:  because  the  bill  was  going  to  pass  that 
night,  and  he  wanted  the  proof  to  getljack  so  that  he  could  make  his 
additions,  in  the  nature  of  amendments  made  on  the  floor,  and  >end 
the  proof  down  that  night  and  have  it  next  morning  to  read. 

Mr.  Howe.  Simply  to  facilitate  his  work  < 

Mr.  AVoi.D.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  dela^-.  then,  that  the  conferees  experienced  in  get- 
ting the  print  that  they  wanted  to  work  on  was  simply  due  to  the  fact 
that  the  bill  did  not  tinally  pass  until  about  10  o'clock  that  night,  and 
that  you  did  not  have  the  copv  from  which  to  print  the  particular 
print  that  the  conferees  wanted  until  the  next  morning  about  8  o'clock 
or  thereal^outs? 

Captain  Brian.  No,  Mr.  Howe.  We  have  insisted  that  that  is  not 
the  print  that  the  conferees  wanted.  That  was  the  print  that  was  to 
go  to  the  House  before  the  conferees  were  appointed  at  all,  or  1)efore 
it  was  known  that  there  were  going  to  be  any  conferees. 

Mr.  Wold.  Mr.  Howe 

Mr.  Howe.  Proceed.  Mr.  Wold. 

Mr.  Wold.  The  bill  passed  the  Senate  about  10  o'clock  Thursday- 
night. 

Mr.  Howe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wold.  The  amendments  are  to  be  prepared  by  Mr.  Piatt  on 
the  engrossed  copy  and  returned  to  the  House  officially,  showing  the 
amendments  of  the  Senate.  Over  there  the  House  always  makes  it  a 
practice  to  order  the  bill  printed  with  the  Senate  amendments  num- 
bered. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Yes. 

]Slr.  Wold.  They  did  not  have  time  that  night,  or  rather  Mr.  Piatt 
did  not.  Mr.  Piatt,  of  course,  at  10  o'clock  that  night  could  not  trans- 
mit to  the  House  the  deficiency  amendments  for  the  simple  reason 
that  they  were  not  on  engrossed  print.  There  was  not  an  engrossed 
print  of  it.  There  was  a  man  who  came  over  to  the  Senate  and  in- 
quired if  he  could  not  get  it.  but  there  were  a  great  many  amend- 
ments, and  ]SIr.  Piatt  was  preparing  them  to  send  them  to  the  Govern- 
ment Printing  Office.  This  was  about  12  o'clock  Thursday  night. 
Now,  1  am  not  positive,  1  can  not  tell  exactly,  but  1  think  the  Senate 
adjourned  at  11  or  quarter  of  11,  or  somewhere  about  there,  and  at  12 
o'clock  at  night  he  had  his  deficiency  prepared  and  sent  it  to  the  Gov- 
ernment Printing  Office — the  amendments  in  full.  Now,  the  object 
would  be  for  the  House  clerks  to  get  hold  of  those  amendments  in 
order  to  print  the  bill  with  the  Senate  amendments  numbered,  and 
they  could  not  do  that  at  12  o'clock  at  night. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  the  print  the  conferees  wanteds 

Mr.  Wold.  That  is  the  print  the  conferees  wanted — the  one  with 
the  Senate  amendments  numbered. 

Captain  Brian.  Wait  a  minute;  this  copy  that  Mr.  Piatt  was  pre- 
paring was  not  the  copy  that  the  conferees  wanted. 

Mr.  Wold.  But  the  copy  I  am  referring  to  is  the  one  that  the  House 
should  have — the  one  with  the  Senate  amendments  numbered. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  the  one  the  conferees  wanted  ( 


G4  TRTNTING    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  A\"oi.o.  That  is  the  one  tlie  conferees  wanted. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  the  dela}^  in  gettino-  that  provoked  this  criticism? 

Mr,  AVoLD.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  Now,  I  want  to  find  out  whether  there  was  any  delay, 
any  unnecessary  delay,  in  furnishing  that  particular  copy.  Let  us 
get  right  down  to  it.  The  engrossed  copy  from  the  Senate,  with 
these  amendments,  reached  the  Printing  Ottice  at  what  time,  did  you 
say  ? 

"Mr.  Wold.  I  can  not  tell.  That  is  for  Mr.  Piatt  to  tell,  for  sure. 
Of  course.  1  was  with  him  there,  or  standing  there,  and  1  noticed  it; 
and  I  know  it  was  12  o'clock  at  night  when  he  was  talking  about 
it,  and  I  should  judge  that  the  Printing  Office  Avould  receive  the 
amendments  in  full  from  Mr.  Piatt  about  12.30  or  1  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  appears  that  the  Printing  Office  returned  it  the  next 
morning  at  8.25.     Is  that  right? 

Mr.  Morgan.  That  is  right.  That  is  the  first  print,  the  first  proof, 
and  the  amendments  that  were  passed  on  the  fioor  of  the  Senate,  that 
copy  was  not  furnished  the  Office  until  10  o'clock  the  next  morning, 
Frida}'  morning. 

Mr.  Wold.  The  copy  that 

Mr.  Young.  The  copj-  that  was  pasted  on  the  proof  sheet. 

Mr.  Wold.  I  do  not  know  anything  about  that.  That  is  for  Mr. 
Piatt  to  testify  to. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  understand  you  did  not  get  that  copy  until  10  o'clock 
the  next  morning? 

Mr.  Morgan.  We  did  not  get  that  copy  until  10  o'clock  the  next 
morning. 

Mr.  How^E.  And  that  was  the  matter  you  had  to  avail  yourselves  of 
in  supplying  the  conferees  with  the  particular  print  the}'  were  impa- 
tient to  receive  ( 

Captain  Brian.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Young.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  How^E.  Well,  I  must  say  that  1  am  experiencing  a  great  deal  of 
difficulty  in  finding  out  about  that. 

Captain  Brian.  Jf  the  reporter  will  stop  for  one  moment,  I  think 
we  can  make  that  plain  to  you,  Mr.  Howe. 

Mr.  Howe.   Have  you  the  engrossed  amendments  on  this? 

Mr.  Young.   No;  1  have  not. 

Captain  Brian.  I  have  the  engrossed  amendments. 

Mr.  W.  A.  Smith.   What  number  was  that? 

jMr.  Wold.  That  was  No.  20i03. 

Mr.  Young.  1  will  illustrate  this,  if  you  wish  me  to,  "Sir.  Howe. 

^Ir.  Howe.  I  wish  you  would. 

Mr.  Young.  1  will  illustrate  it  with  this  bill  [indicating].  It  is 
immaterial  what  bill  we  have. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Yes;  any  bill  will  do.  1  simpl}"  want  to  find  out  what 
print  it  was  they  wanted. 

Mr.  Young.  Here  is  a  bill,  for  instance,  as  it  is  reported  in  the 
House.  That  is  passed  1\y  the  House  and  then  printed  as  an  engrossed 
bill.  This  is  the  engrossed  bill,  and  that  goes  to  the  Senate.  The 
Senate  has  it  reprinted  and  referred  to  the  committee.  Then  the  com- 
mittee reports  that  bill.  When  that  bill  is  reported,  the  amendments — 
the  numbered  amendments — are  made  up  by  Mr.  Piatt. 

Mr.  Howe.  Yes. 


PRINTING    OB'    KILLS    AND    JOINT    KKSOLUTIONS.  G5 

Mr.  Young.  That  is  this  print  [indicatino-]. 

Mr.  HowK.  Yes. 

Mr.  Young.  Now.  Mr.  Phitt  goos  to  woik  and  ho  takes  the  repoi-ted 
bill,  for  instance,  and  he  takes  each  one  of  these  items  [ indicating],  and 
uses  them  as  liis  tentative  copy,  does  he  not^ 

Mr.  A\'oLU.   So  I  understand.      1  think  tliat  is  his  [)ractice. 

Mr.  YouNc;.  He  takes  that  copy,  and  lie  gets  a  proof  of  it.  Then, 
when  the  Senate  finally  passes  the  bill,  he  inserts  whatever  new  amend- 
ments they  have  made. 

Mr.  Howe.  luto  the  proofs 

Mr.  Young.  Into  the  proof.  He  strikes  out  whatever  has  not  been 
passed  by  the  Senate.  Then  they  are  numbered  1,  2,  3,  4,  ."),  G — do 
you  see  i 

^Ir.  Howe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Young.  Like  this  [indicating].  That  is  then  printed,  and  is 
considered  as  the  munbered  amendments  of  the  Senate  to  the  bill. 
They  put  a  resolving  clause  over  it,  saying  that  it  has  passed  the  Sen- 
ate with  numbered  amendments.  It  goes  to  the  House  and  the  House 
then  has  it  printed  for  the  use  of  the  conferees,  with  the  amendments 
of  the  Senate  numbered  in  the  original  bill,  and  there  it  is.  That  is 
the  bill  the  conferees  were  waiting  for. 

Mr.  Ho^yE.  Now,  wheu  did  the  copy  for  the  uumbered-amendments 
print  reach  the  Printing  OfHce  ^ 

Mr.  Young.   It  reached  there  at  10  o'clock  in  the  morning. 

Captain  Brian.   Oh.  no;  wait  a  moment. 

Mr.  Young.  The  tinal  copy.  ^ 

Captain  Brian.  No;  vou  are  wrong. 

Mr.  Young.  All  right;  I  will  retract  that,  then. 

Mr.  Wold.  I  will  clear  that  up  for  3'ou  gentlemen,  I  think,  in  a 
very  short  statement  here. 

Mr.  Howe,  I  do  not  want  to  get  awa}'  from  this  question  because 
I  have  been  trying  for  two  days  to  get  it  straightened  out. 

Mr.  Morgan.  I  can  tell  30U  the  minute  the  othcial  copy  of  this  l)ill 
reached  the  Oifice. 

]Mr.  How?:.  I  wish  you  would. 

Mr.  ^Morgan.  It  reached  there  at  2.-35  in  the  afternoon. 

:\[r.  Howe.  Of  what  day  i 

]Mr.  Morgan.  Frida}'  afternoon.  That  is,  the  official  cop}-  for  the 
numbered  amendments,  printed  as  3'ou  have  it  here  before  you. 

Mr.  Young.  I  thought  3'ou  were  talking  about  the  engrossed  amend- 
ments of  the  Senate.     1  see. 

Mr.  Wold.  That  is  right. 
(     Mr.  Howe.  That  is  the  l^ill  that  you  returned  at  3.25  on  that  day? 
-     Mr.  Morgan.  3.25  on  that  dav. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Then  it  was  not  possiI)le  for  the  conferees  to  ha\'e  that 
print  before  3.25  of  that  da}'? 

Mr.  Morgan,  No,  If  we  had  waited  for  the  official  cop}'  it  would 
not  have  been  possible  for  them  to  have  had  it  for  an  hour  or  two 
later, 

Mr.  Howe,  Now.  it  remains  to  be  shown  whether  any  undue  amount 
of  time  Avas  consumed  in  getting  that  copy  to  the  JPrinting  Office. 
How  was  it  with  regard  to  the  measure  as  vou  had  it  in  the  Senate, 
Mr.  Wold? 


i 


6G  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  WoLi).  The  bill  passed  the  Senate,  and  the  engrossed  amend- 
ments were  received  by  Mr.  Piatt  next  morning,  I  suppose,  as  usual, 
and  he  could  not  transmit  that  until  the  House  convened  on  Friday. 
Then  he  transmits  it  to  the  House  with  his  official  amendments,  and 
then,  1  suj)pose,  it  is  up  to  the  clerks  of  the  House  of  Representatives 
to  prepare  this  copv. 

Mr.  YouN(;.  That  is  it— Mr.  Matlack. 

Mr.  Wold.  And  they  could  not  prepare  it  in  any  way  in  the  woi'ld 
until  it  was  received  in  the  House  unless  they  were  in  possession  of  an 
advanced  copy.     It  would  be  an  inipossil)ility. 

Mr.  HoAVK.  ^Vas  it  messaged  over  to  the  House  Friday  morning? 
Mr.  NVoLD.  I  think  it  was  messaged  over  to  the  House  Friday.  I 
can  not  tell  you  anything  about  that  positively,  but  I  think  it  was.  If 
the  ))ill  passed  Thursday  evening  it  was  messaged  over  to  the  House 
about  Friday  noon.  If  the  House  convened  at  11  o'clock  1  have  no 
doubt  it  was  messaged  over  there  a  few  minutes  after  11.  officially. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  ^^'e  will  get  the  record  right  here  before  us,  and  lind 
out  when  it  was  messaged  over. 

Mr.  WoLD.   Friday.  .June  29,  1  think  you  will  tind  it,  i\t  11.15. 
Mr.   HoAVE.   Captain   Brian,  I  see   you  have   been  looking  at  the 
Record.     What  do  you  find  ( 

Captain  Brian.  1  find  the  House  convened  on  Friday,  June  29,  at 
11  o'clock.  That  is  shown  on  page  !>930  of  the  Record.  I  find  on 
page  9958  that  a  message  Avas  received  from  the  Senate  amiouncing 
the  passage  of  that  liill. 

Mr.  Howe.  But  there  is  not  anything  here  to  indicate  the  time,  is 
there? 

Captain  Brian.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Judging  from  this  record  the  general  deficiency  bill 
certainly  Avas  not  messaged  over  to  the  House  on  the  morning  of  that 
day. 

Mr.  WoLD.  How  are  you  going  to  judge  1)}^  the  Records 
Mr.  HoAVE.  Simply  because  the  House  met  at  11  o'clock,  and  here 
are  27  pages  of  proceedings  and  debate,  and  that  amount  of  debate 

could  not  have  been  certainly 

Mr.  Wold.  You  are  not  under  the  impression,  are  you,  that  every- 
thing that  transpires  is  put  in  in  its  regular  order  as  the  things  happen  i 
Mr.  HoAVE.  Why,  Avhen  your  messenger  from  the  Senate  goes  to 
the  House  he  is  recognized  innuediately,  is  he  not? 

Mr.  Wold.  I  suppose  so;  I  don't  knoAV.  I  suppose  he  is,  but  that 
does  not  necessarily  say  that  the  proceedings  Avill  go  into  the  Con- 
gressional Record  the  first  thing. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  If  the  messenger  appeared  in  the  middle  of  the  remarks 
of  Mr.  So  and  So,  it  would  shoAV.  Now,  Mr.  Wold,  you  Avill  ol)serve 
in  the  proceedings  there  that  one  message  went  over  early  in  the  pro- 
ceedings, but  the  general  deficiency  bill  Avas  not  among  the  measures 
that  Avere  messaged  over  at  that  time.     This  was  a  second  message. 

Mr.  Wold.  How  about  this?  [Indicating  in  Congressional  Record.] 
These  are  only  bills  passed.  That  does  not  consume  any  time.  The 
passing  of  a  bill  does  not  consume  ahy  time. 

Mr.  Howe.  No;  but  there  Avas  considerable  debate. 

Mr.  Wold.  This  is  all  insert. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Yes;  but  there  was  considerable  debate,  and  the  House 


PRINTING    OB'    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KKSOHJTIONS.  67 

did  not  meet  until  11  oVlock,  so  that  it  i«  quite  coiu-eiva))le  that  it 
uiioht  have  lieen  after  12  o\'k)ck  before  it  was  messaged  over. 

Air.  Wold.     Here  are  ten  pag-es  of  printed  matter,  inserted. 

Mr.  HowK.  I  realize  tiiat,  hut  on  th(>  other  hand  thei'e  were  nine- 
teen bills  passed,  some  of  thiMu  involving'  considerable  debate;  and  1 
repeat  that  it  is  probably  true  that  it  could  not  have  I'eached  the 
House  l)efoi'e  the  afternoon  of  that  day. 

]\Ir.  Wold.  Well,  of  course  that  is  something-  that  1  have  nothing 
to  do  with.     Mr.  Piatt  is  the  man  who  will  answer  as  to  that. 

Mr.  Howe.    1  understand,  of  course. 

Mr.  Wold.  But  I  was  just  speaking  from  memor}-,  you  understand, 
of  what  I  thought  Mr.  Piatt  was  doing  at  the  time. 

Mr.  Howe.  Well,  it  is  sinjply  important  as  showing  where  the 
time  was  consumed.  I  am  not  asserting,  of  course,  that  there  was  any 
undue  delay  anywhere. 

Mr.  Wold.   No. 

iNIr.  Howe.  But  that  it  is  prol)able  it  did  not  get  to  the  House  until 
after  12  o'clock. 

Mr.  '\\'oLD.  Well,  I  would  not  know  anything  about  ^\•hen  it  got 
there.     That  is  for  Mr.  Piatt. 

Mr.  Howe.  According  to  the  testimony  of  the  Printing  Office  they 
did  not  receive  the  copy  until  2.3.5.  and  they  returned  it  at  3.25. 

i\Ir.  Youx(J.  I  think  Mr.  Matlack  did  pretty  good  work  at  that. 

Mr.  Wold.  I  received  four  advance  copies  from  ]Mr.  Dierken  at 
3.25.  He  called  me  up  on  the  phone  and  asked,  as  a  favor,  that  I 
carry  them  into  the  conference  committee  right  away,  which  I  did  at 
3.25;  and  I  think  that  ten  minutes  afterwards  additional  co})ies  came 
up.     I  don't  know  liow  man3\ 

Mr.  Young.  Yes;  we  gave  tliem  enough  to  woi-k  on. 

Mr.  Howe.  Well,  we  have  got  about  all  we  want  in  regard  to  the 
general  deticienc}'  bill.  Of  course  I  will  tr}^  to  question  Mr.  Piatt 
further  al)Out  it.     Now,  as  to  the  public  })uildings  bill. 

Captain  Brian.  Before  you  get  away  from  the  general  deficienc}^ 
bill  may  I  ask  Mr.  Wold  one  question^ 

]Mr.  Howe.  Y'es,  sir. 

Captain  Brian.  jSIr.  Wold,  we  have  here  the  copy  of  that  bill  for 
the  numt)ered  amendments,  sent  from  the  House,  and  1  want  to  ask 
you  what  your  opinion  is  as  to  the  length  of  time  it  would  talvc  the 
clerks  to  prepare  that  bill  as  this  is  prepared  [indicating]. 

Mr.  Wold.  Well,  1  should  think — that  is  something  that  I  have 
never  tackled;  1  have  never  been  up  against  a  proposition  like  that 
myself — l)ut  if  a  man  has  an  appropriation  bill  on  hand  he  wants  to 
try  to  be  accurate,  and  he  is  going  to  take  some*  time.  It  ought  to 
take  a  couple  of  hours,  in  my  estimation. 

Captain  Brian.  Not  less  than  two  hours,  on  a  bill  of  this  size,  and 
more  likely  three  hours  ^ 

Mr.  Wold.  Y'es;  I  have  never  done  any  of  that  work,  ])ut  of  course 
I  have  seen  lots  of  it  done. 

Captain  Brian.  If  this  bill  had  been  turned  over  to  the  clerk  at  11 
o'clock,  at  the  hour  the  House  met,  it  could  not  possibly  have  been 
done  before  2  oYdock. 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.  Unquestionably  an  appropriation  bill  just  a  little  bit 
larger  than  that  takes  three  or  four  hours. 


68  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Wold.  So  far  as  1113^  saying-  that  the  deticienc>^  bill  went  OAer 
at  11  o'clock  is  concerned,  I  do  not  know  anything'  al)oi>t  it.  1  did 
not  have  anything  to  do  with  it.  I  only  heard.  Of  course,  being  the 
last  days  of  the  session,  I  am  keeping  a  history  of  the  bills,  you 
know,  the  api)ro])riati()n  bills  that  are  to  be  acted  upon,  and  I  natur- 
ally inciuiicd,  but  I  think  you  will  find  that  Mr.  Flatt  sent  over  one  of 
the  appropriation  bills  at  11  o'clock  to  the  House,  ofiicially,  in  the 
tirst  message,  although  I  am  not  sure. 

Mr.  Morgan.  I  think  so,  too.  That  is  probably  the  engrossed 
amendments  on  the  public  l)uildings  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  We  are  talking  now  particularly  about  the  general 
deficiency  bill,  and  1  think  it  is  safe  to  assume  that  it  did  not  reach 
the  House  until  afternoon.  Now,  to  g-et  back  to  the  public  buildings 
bill.     That  bill  went  over  in  the  hrst  message  on  Friday,  did  it  not^ 

Mr.  A^'^OLD.  Well,  it  passed  Thursday  night  with  amendments,  and 
I  don't  know  when  Mr.  Piatt  sent  it  over.  I  can  not  tell  you  any- 
thing aliout  that.  1  know  that  ni}^  records  show  that  it  passed  Thurs- 
day evening. 

^Ir.  Howe.  Have  you  the  exact  time  there? 

Mr.  Wold.  I  have  the  card  here  showing  the  page  of  the  Journal, 
and  the  page  of  the  Journal  will  give  the  date  and  1  can  tell.  This 
number  here  includes  that  date. 

Mr.  HowK.  On  page  !)H3o  of  the  Record  of  June  20,  which  is  Frida}^ 
it  appears  that  the  public  buildings  bill  was  messaged  over  to  the 
House  in  the  tirst  message.  Do  your  records  show  when  it  came 
back  from  the  House  disagreed  to? 

Mr.  Wold.  I  would  have  to  have  the  Journal  pages  down  here,  and 
I  haven't  them  with  me.  I  have  an  entry  '"  Senate  insists  and  agrees 
to  conference." 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  on  Friday? 

Mr.  Wold.  That  is  on  Friday;  yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  Will  jou  get  the  Journal  pages? 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes,  sir. 

(Mr.  Wold  left  the  room  and  subsequently  returned  with  the  pages 
referred  to.) 

Mr.  Wold.  Here  it  is.  Page  6SS  of  the  Senate  Journal  shows  that 
there  was  a  message  from  the  House  of  Representatives  by  Mr.  Brown- 
ing", its  Chief  Clerk,  and  that  the  House  of  Representatives  has  disa- 
greed to  the  amendments  of  the  Senate  to  the  l)ill  tiOllO.  It  gives  the 
title  of  the  bill.  It  asks  a  conference  with  the  Senate  on  the  disa- 
greeing Azotes  of  the  two  Houses  thereon,  and  has  appointed  Mr.  Barch- 
feld,  Mr.  Burleigh,  and  Mr.  Bankhead,  managers  at  the  same  on  its 
part. 

Then  on  the  same  page  it  says,  "The  Vice-President  laid  before  the 
Senate  a  message  this  day  received  from  the  House  of  Representatives 
announcing  its  disagreement  to  the  amendments  of  the  Senate  to  the 
bill  20410,"  and  it  gives  the  title,  and  asking  a  conference  with  the 
Senate  thereon.  "On  motion  of  Mr.  Scott,  Resolved  that  the  Senate 
insists  upon  its  amendments  to  the  said  bill  disagreed  t6  by  the  House 
of  Representatives,  and  agree  to  the  conference  asked  for  by  the 
House  on  the  disagreeing  notes  of  the  two  Houses  thereon."  It  was 
ordered  that  the  conferees  on  the  part  of  the  Senate  be  appointed  b}" 
the  Vice-President,  and  the  Vice-President  appointed  Mr.  Scott,  Mr. 
Warren,  and  Mr.  Culberson. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  69 

:Mr.  liowE.   AMiat  day  was  that? 

Mr.  Wold.  June  29.' 

Mr.  Howe.  That  wa«  Friday.     It  then  went  to  conference? 

]Mr.  Wold.   It  went  to  conference. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  there  anythinu-  in  your  record  to  show  when  the 
conference  report  was  submitted  in  the  Senate? 

Mr.  Wold.  On  pat>v  ()9!»,  under  date  of  flune  29,  in  the  evenino- 
session,  it  appears  that  Mr.  Scott  presented  the  conference  report,  in 
part,  and  furtiier  insisted  upon  certain  amendments  whicli  were  in  dis- 
aoreement,  and  asked  a  further  conference. 

Mr.  Howe.  Were  there  any  more  conference  reports,  oi-  tlid  those 
two  comprise  them  all? 

Mr.  Wold.  Of  course  the  second  conference  report  was  presented. 
The  conference  report  that  was  first  presented,  the  one  I  have  just 
mentioned,  was  not  a  full  report. 

Mr.  Howe.   It  was  just  a  fi-actional  report? 

^Ir.  ^^'or,l).  Just  a  fractional  report. 

]Mr.  Howe.  How  about  the  second  conference  report?  Was  there 
not  a  second  report  ? 

Mr.  ^VoLD.  On  page  TOT,  under  date  of  June  30,  the  second  one 
was  presented. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  is  safe  to  assume,  is  it  not,  that  conference  reports 
go  into  both  Houses  about  the  same  time,  relatively  speaking? 

Mr.  AVold.  No. 

Mr.  Howe.  No? 

Mr.  Wold.  A  conference  report  is  handled  in  this  way.  The  body 
that  grants  the  conference  presents  its  conference  report  tirst.  Then 
that  l)ody  notities  the  other  branch  of  Congress  that  it  has  agreed  to 
it,  and  tiien  the  other  branch  presents  its  report- after  the  official  noti- 
lication  has  been  presented. 

Mr.  Howe.  But  it  generalh^  follows  that  there  is  not  much  of  a  lapse 
of  time  between  the  sul)mission  of  the  two? 

Mr.  ^VoLD.   Oh,  no;  not  very  nuich. 

Ml.  Howe.  Not  so  much  as  a  day ? 

Mr.  Wold.  Well,  that  depends  uyjon  what  kind  of  a  l)ill  it  is.  It 
is  never  a  day  with  an  appropriation  bill. 

]Mr.  Howe.  What  I  am  trying  to  get  at  is,  was  there  any  undue 
lapse  of  time  between  the  moment  when  the  conferees  agreed  among 
themselves  and  the  time  of  the  sulnuission  of  the  i^eport  to  either  or 
both  Houses,  and  what  would  probabh"  cause  the  consumption  of  that 
time? 

Mr.  Wold.  I  do  not  know  anything  about  that.  All  I  have  to  deal 
with  is  the  Senate  Journal.  Tiie  clerk  to  the  conmiittee  of  confer- 
ence prepares  the  conference  report,  and  the  time  that  he  takes  to 
prepare  it  and  the  time  that  any  Senator  or  Member  presents  it  I 
would  not  know. 

]\Ir.  HoAVE.  Actually,  how  much  time  was  there?  Have  you  any- 
thing to  show  how  nuich  time  there  was  between  the  moment  the 
conferees  agreed  and  the  time  the  report  was  submitted? 

Mr,  Wold.  Why,  all  I  know  about  it  is  that  the  report  was  sub- 
mitted on  June  30,  but  from  my  own  knowledge,  from  being  in  the 
Senate  Chamber,  1  can  give  you  the  exact  time.  It  was  about  1.30 
to  a  quarter  of  2.  on  Saturday,  June  30. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  the  time  it  was  submitted? 


70  TKINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

]Mi-.  WoLi).  That  is  the  time  it  was  snl)mitted  to  the  Senate.  The 
niessao'e  from  the  House,  I  tliink,  came  over  about  1.15;  1  am  not 
positive,  only  from  being  present  in  the  Senate. 

jVIr.  IIowK.  Now  let  us  try  to  o-et  at  it  in  another  way.  Is  there 
anvthino-  to  show  wlien  the  bill  went  to  conference^ 

Mr.  WoLi).  Which  l)ill^ 

Mr.  Howe.  The  public  l)uildinos  bill.- 

Mr.  ^^'oLl).  Yes,  sir. 

Captain  Biiiax.  May  I  ask  Mr.  Wold  if,  after  that,  the  Senate  did 
not  have  to  notify  the  House  that  they  had  agreed^ 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  That  was  after  1.55. 

Mr.  Howi<:.  That  took  a  few  minutes,  of  course.  Now,  Mr. 
Reporter,  will  you  read  my  previous  question? 

(The  reporter  read  as  follows:) 

Mr.  Howe.  Now,  let  us  try  to  get  at  it  in  another  way.     Is  there  anything  to  show 
Avhen  the  bill  went  to  conference? 
Mr.  Wold.   Which  bill? 
Mr.  Howe.  The  public  buildings  bill. 
Mr.  Wold.   Yes. 

Mr.  Wold.  That  shows,  as  I  was  reading-  to  3'ou  awhile  ago,  on 
page  OSS,  that  the  Senate  insisted  and  agreed  to  a  conference  on  June 
29.     That  throws  it  into  conference. 

Mr.  Howe.  There  is  nothing  there  that  would  indicate  the  time  of 
day.     Could  you  approximate  it? 

Mr.  Wold.  1  would  not  have  any  idea  about  that.  You  would  have 
to  ask  Mr.  Piatt.  I  imagine  from  the  entries  on  the  Senate  Journal 
that  it  would  l)e  somewhere  right  after  the  convening  of  the  Senate 
on  Friday,  June  29,  between  12  and  1  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  the  conferees  did  not  report  until  the  next  dav 
after  1  ? 

Mr.  W^OLD.  The  conferees  reported  that  night  about  10  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  w^hat  is  this  mention  of 

Mr.  Wold.  That  is,  upon  a  partial  agreement. 

Mr.  Howe.  There  seems  to  ))e  some  confusion  in  fixing  the  time  of 
the  subunssion  of  these  reports,  growing  out  of  the  fact  that  the  Senate 
adjourned  Friday  night 

Mr.  Wold.  -Immediately  after  the  adoption  of  the  public  buildings 
conference  report. 

Mr.  Howe  (continuing).  To  resume  next  morning,  while  the  House 
simply  recessed,  and  the  House  proceedings  of  Saturday  morning- 
were  made  to  appear  in  the  Record  as  })eing  the  proceedings  of  Friday. 

Mr.  Wold.  1  would  not  know  anything  about  that.  Probably  they 
took  a  recess. 

Mr.  Howe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wold.  The  Senate  adjoui-ned.  Wait  a  minute;  the  Senate 
adjourned  at  11  o'clock  and  45  minutes  on  Friday,  June  29.  That  is 
in  the  Senate  Journal  on  page  701. 

Mr.  Howe.  While  the  House  simply  took  a  recess. 

Mr.  Wold.  Well,  I  would  not  know  anything  about  that  unless  I 
looked  at  the  Record. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  the  fact;  the  House  took  a  recess.  Do  vou 
recognize  any  delay,  Mr.  Wold,  in  the  handling  of  this  public  build- 
ings bill? 


TKINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  71 

Mr.  AVoLi).  Well,  I  can  not  say  that  I  do,  inannuich  as  I  do  not 
know  anything-  of  the  particulars  a])oiit  it. 

]Mr.  HowK.  There  seems  to  have  been  a  good  deal  of  time  between 
the  ao-reement  of  the  conferees  and  the  submission  of  the  report,  and 
I  thouo'ht  possibly  you  mioht  have  some  theory  as  to  why  that  amount 
of  time  was  consumed. 

]Mr.  WoLO.  I  do  not  know  when  the  conferees  agreed.  I  do  know 
that  the  conference  report  was  presented  and  agreed  to  in  the  Senate 
about,  as  1  said  before,  between  l.'.M)  and  1.45. 

^Ir.  Howe.  On  Saturday. 

Mr.  Wold.  On  Saturday.  ^ 

Mr.  Howp:.   Do  your  duties  carry  you  over  to  the  Housed 

]\Ir.  WoT>D.  No;  not  officially. 

Mr.  ITowE.  You  are  not  cognizant  of  any  proceedings  that  took 
place  over  there,  then  i 

Mr.  Wold.   Nothing  officially;  no. 

Mr.  IIowE.  The  correct  procedure  in  this  case  would  have  been  that 
the  conference  report  should  first  be  submitted  in  the  Senate,  or  in 
the  House? 

Mr.  Wold.   Which  conference  report? 

]Mr.  Howe.  The  conference  report  on  the  public  l)uildings  bill. 

Mr.  Wold.  There  were  two  conferences.  The  first  one  was  pre- 
sented in  the  Senate.  The  House  disagrees,  and  the  Senate  insists 
and  agrees  to  the  conference,  which  means  granting-  the  conference. 
The  Senate  presents  its  conference  report  first. 

Mr.  Howe.  How  was  it  in  the  other  case? 

Mr.  Wold.  In  the  second  conference  the  House  conferees  were 
supposed  to  present — or  rather,  they  are  not  supposed,  they  ought  to 
submit  their  conference  report  first,  under  the  rules  of  practice 
between  the  two  Houses. 

Mr.  Howe.  There  was  not  any  confusion  about  that,  so  far  as  3'ou 
know  ? 

]Mr.  Wold.  Not  that  I  know  of,  that  I  can  sa}^  positively.  The 
conference  reports  are  confusing-,  especially  where  there  are  two  or 
three  conferences. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  say  they  are  confusing? 

Mr.  Wold.  At  times;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Actually,  was  there  any  confusion  in  this  case? 

Mr.  Woi  D.  I  do  not  know  of  any,  because  all  1  have  is  the  Senate 
Journal  to  go  by  to  make  my  entries.  There  may  have  been  some 
delay  in  it,  but  I  do  not  know  where  it  was. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  say  that  your  duties  do  not  officiallj'^  carry  you 
over  to  the  House  i 

Mr.  Wold.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Did  3T)u  have  any  occasion  on  that  day  to  go  over  to 
the  House  on  the  business  of  the  Senate  ? 

Mi-.  Wold.  I  never  went  over  on  business  of  the  Senate.  1  just 
went  over  from  personal  interest,  to  find  out  how  the  public  build- 
ings bill  was  getting  on,  after  the  Senate  had  acted  upon  the  con- 
ference report. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  was  after  1.55,  or  whatever  the  time  was? 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes. 

]VIr.  Howe.   What  did  you  discover  over  there? 


72  PRINTING    OF    15ILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  WoLD.  I  just  went  over  into  Mr.  McKenney's  office,  and  I  was 
talking:  to  him  about  the  public  building-s  bill.  He  had  not  prepared 
the  copy  to  be  put  on  j^archnient  yet.  He  had  not  received  the  con- 
ference report. 

Mr.  Howe.   He  had  not  received  it? 

Mr.  Wold.  He  had  not  I'cceived  the  papers  in  the  case, 

Mr.  HowK.  Notwithstandino-  the  fact  that  the  House  was  required, 
under  the  rules  of  practice,  to  submit  the  I'eport  ii-rst:! 

Mr.  Wold.  Well,  they  had  su])mitted  it.  At  this  time  it  had 
passed  the  House  and  Senate;  and  it  had  just  passed  the  Senate,  and 
1  went  over  to  see  INIr.  McKenney  to  find  out  about  how  long  it  was 
o-oing-  to  take  him  to  enroll  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  did  he  say  al)Out  the  length  of  time  it  was  going 
to  take  him  to  enroll  it^ 

Mr.  Wold.  This  was  2.15,  and  he  says:  ''It  will  take  me  all  the 
way  from  an  hour  to  an  hour  and  a  half  to  enroll  it,''  so  that  I  should 
think  he  would  have  the  copy  ready  for  the  Government  Printing 
Office  to  put  on  parchment  about  4  o'clock  or  later.  It  depends  upon 
whether  or  not  it  took  him  an  hour  and  a  half;  but  he  surelv  could 
not  have  gotten  it  there  before  4:  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  am  getting  a  little  away  from  the  point.  I  was  try- 
ing to  ascertain  whether  there  was  any  delay  in  the  action  of  the  House 
in  sulnuitting  the  second  conference  report  which  you  say  they  were 
recjuired  under  the  practice  of  the  two  bodies  to  make  first. 

Mr.  Wold.  Well,  I  could  not  say  about  that.  The  House  must 
have  acted  on  that  conference  report  about  1  o'clock,  or  close  to  that 
time,  and  they  convened  at  11  o'clock.  Prol)al)ly  the  report  was  not 
prepared  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Howe.  Was  any  explanation  made  as  to  why  it  was  not  pre- 
pared 'i 

Mr.  Wold.  1  did  not  talk  with  anybody  about  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  Let  us  get  bade  to  this  question  of  confusion  in  the  pro- 
cedure. Did  you  say  there  was,  in  your  judgment,  confusion  in  this 
case  as  to  which  house  should  first  submit  the  report? 

Mr.  Wold.  Well,  there  somi^times  is  a  question.  Some  Senators 
and  some  Members  not  being  entii'ely  familial"  with  the  procedure, 
sometimes  they  question  the  mode  of  procedure. 

Mr,  Howe.   Was  there  any  question  in  this  regard^ 

Mr.  Wold.  There  was  none  asked  me. 

Mr.  Howe.   Did  you  hearanv  question  raised  a])out  it  at  all? 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes,'  I  did. 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  you  care  to  state  who  raised  the  question? 

Mr.  Wold.  Wh}',  I  don't  know  of  an^dwdy  in  particular  raising 
the  question,  except  that  I  heard  some  one  remark  in  the  office — 
whether  it  was  one  of  the  clerks  or  a  newspaper  reporter  I  do  not 
know — that  there  was  some  question  as  to  just  where  the  conference 
report  should  be  presented  first. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  probaldv  accounted  for  some  of  the  delav.  did  it 
not? 

Mr.  Wold.  It  probably  would,  where  there  was  a  question  like 
that  raised. 

Mr.  Howe.  Who  would  naturally  decide  a  question  of  that  kind? 
Who  would  be  the  natural  man  to  state  the  procedure  to  anyone  inter- 
ested to  know  it? 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  78 

Mr.  Wold.  In  the  Senate  they  always  go  to  Mr.  McDonald,  the 
chief  clerk,  and  ask  him  any  (luestions  as  to  parlianientar}-  procedure. 
Mr.  Howe.   Whs  any  inquiry  made  of  him  so  far  as  you  know? 
Mr.  Wold.   1  do  not  know. 

Mr.  IIowE.    Who,  in  the  House,  would  he  the  party  to  decidi>  such  a 
^  question? 

Mr.  ^^'oLD.   1  imagine  that  Mr.  Hind.s  would  l)e  the  man. 
]\Ir.  Howe.  Then,  if  there  was  a  (piestion,  one  or  the  other  of  these 
.  g-entlemen  nuist  have  been  (piestioned  and  must  have  derided  it? 
Mr.  Wold.   Prol)a))ly;  if  there  was  any  question  a))out  it. 
]\lr.  Howe.   But  I  thought  you  said  there  was  a  q\iestion  ahout  it. 
Mr.  \\'oLD.  Oidy  what  I  heard.     I  do  not  know  about  it  officially. 
]\Ir.  Howe.   Would  you  care  to  state  Avhat  you  heard? 
Mr.  Wold.   Well,  all  1  know  is  that  there  was  a  rwnark  made  that 
they  did  not  know  just  where  the  conference  report  ought  to  have  been 
presented;  ])ut  of  course  it  should  be  presented  in  the  House  first. 
Mr.  Howe.   ^Mlo  were  the  parties  to  this  conversation? 
i       ]\ir.  Wold.  I  can  not  say  that  positively,  t)ecause  I  do  not  know. 
'  I  could  not  sa}"  that  positively,  as  I  only  heard  the  remark. 
Mr.  Howe.   How  did  they  finally  get  enlightenment? 
Mr.  Wold.  1  don't  know.     You  have  got   me  there.     I   can   not 
;  ansAver  that.     I  know  the  night  liefore  I  suggested — I  don't  know  the 
i  man's  name;  he  is  on  the  floor  of  the  House— I  suggested  to  him  when 
he  came  over  to  inquire  about  the  public  buildings  bill  to  remember 
that  the  conference  report  was  to  be  presented  in  the  House  first. 

]Mr.   Howe.  Now,  Mr.    Wold,  this  committee  is  trying  to  get  at 
the  facts  in  this  matter.     They  are  required  to  get  at  the  facts  by  an 
order  of  the  Senate,  and  if  you  have  any  information  on  this  subject  I 
i  should  judge  it  would  be  quite  proper  for  you  to  furnish  it. 

Mr.  Wold.  Mr.  Howe,  I  would  not  want  to  give  any  information 
that  I  do  not  know  positively  about  the  facts. 
Mr.  Howe.   No;  of  course  not. 

Mr.  AVoLD.   But,  in  my  personal  opinion,  I  suppose  if  the  conference 
report  on  the  })ublic  l)uiidings  bill  could  have  Ijeen  prejjared  and  pre- 
sented in  the  House  of  Representatives,  or  had  ])een  finished  and  pre- 
sented in  the  House  of  Representatives  when  they  convened  at  their 
11  o'clock  session  on  Saturday — 1  suppose  the  Government  Printing 
:  OHice  would  have  got  the  copy  for  that  bill  just  that  nuich  earlier. 
'       Mr.  Howe.  Actually,  froili  3'our  information,  was  there  any  con- 
/  fusion  over  there  ?     Did  they  believe  that  the  report  ought  to  l)e  first 
submitted  in  the  Senate?     Were  they  in  doubt  about  their  rights  in 
the  matter? 

Mr.  Wold.  Nobod^^  ever  asked  me  about  that  at  all,  and  1  could  not 
sa3^     Nobody  ever  came  to  me  and  asked  me  about  it.     Pro))ably  Mr. 
Piatt  could  give  you  more  information  on  that  very  point. 
Mr.  HoAVE.   We  hope  to  hear  from  Mr.  Piatt  on  that  subject. 

^    Captain  Brian.  May  1  ask  a  question,  ]Mr.  Howe. 
Mr.  HoAVE.  Certainly. 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Wold   1  understood  you  to  sa,y  that  you  Avent 
over  to  Mr.  McKenney's  room  about  2.15,  and  that  he  had  not  com- 
menced to  prepare  the  copv  for  the  enrolled  bill. 
Mr.  Wold.  That  is  right. 

Captain  Brian.  Did  Mr.  McKenney  say  that  he  Avas  busy  on  other 
bills  at  that  time? 


74  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  WoLi).   lie  had  not  received  tlie  papers  in  the  case. 

Captain  Brian.  Hut  did  he  sa}'  anything  about  being-  too  busy  to 
prepare  it  when  it  canie^ 

Mr.  WoLD.  He  was  sitting  there  waiting  for  it,  and  had  sent  his 
messenger  after  it. 

Captain  Bkian.   He  had  nothing  else  to  do? 

Mr.  Wold.  Nothing  else  to  do. 

Mr.  Howp:.  Is  it  not  unusual  at  that  stage  of  the  proceedings  for  the 
enrolling  clerk  to  be  idle? 

Mr.  \VoLD.  Why,  he  might  have  had  something  to  do,  but  he  was 
waiting  for  an  appropriation  bill. 

Captain  Brian.  Do  you  know  how  long  after  that  time  it  was  before 
the  copy  reached  Mr.  ^IcKeimey  so  that  he  could  go  to  work  on  it? 

■Nlr.  WoLD.   It  reached  him  while  I  was  in  there. 

C'aptain  Brian.  Did  he  go  to  work  on  it  or  turn  it  over  to  an 
assistant? 

Mr.  Wold.   He  went  to  work  on  it  immediately. 

Captain  Bkian.  Did  he  have  assistants? 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes,  sir. 

Captain  Brian.  1  believe  you  said  that  in  your  opinion  it  would 
take  from  an  hour  and  a  half  to  two  hours  to  prepare  that  bill,  which 
would  bring  it  up  in  the  neighl)orhood  of  4  o'clock. 

Mr.  Wold.   I  think  so.  and  he  said  so  himself. 

C'aptain  Brian.  Yes;  that  would  take  it  up  to  about  4  o'clock.  Did 
Mr.  McKenney  say  how  long  it  would  take  him  to  read  the  proof  on 
that  bill  after  it  was  Returned  ? 

Mr.  Wold.  Well,  I  believe  he  did  say  something  about  that..  I 
don't  remember  the  time,  but  on  an  appropriation  bill  it  would  take 
him-^ — 

Captain  Brian.  This  bill  made  20  large  pages,  you  know,  in  its 
enrolled  form. 

Mr.  Wold.  I  have  no  idea,  becau.se  I  never  read  the  bills,  but  of 
course  it  is  going  to  take  some  time. 

Captain  Brian.  Would  it  take  two  hours:? 

Mr.  Wold.  I  would  not  like  to  testify  about  that,  ^Nlr.  Brian,  for 
the  simple  reason  that  I  do  not  know  anything  about  it.  I  never  had 
any  experience  in  reading  appropriation  bills. 

Captain  Brian.  Did  Mr.  McKenney  say  he  was  going  to  read  that 
himself? 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes,  sir. 

Captain  Brian.   Or  that  he  was  going  to  entrust  it  to  someone  else? 

Mr.  Wold.   He  was  going  to  read  it  himself. 

Captain  Brian.   Did  he  give  any  reason  for  that? 

Mr.  Wold.  Yes,  I  believe  he  did. 

Captain  Brian.  Have  you  any  objection  to  stating  the  reason? 

Mv.  Wold.  He   said  that  there  was  a   mistake  discovered  in  th 
sundry  civil  bill,  and  he  proposed  to  have  the  public  buildings  bill 
correct. 

Captain  Brian.  And  for  that  reason  he  proposed  to  read  it  himself,, 
and  to  be  very  careful  with  it? 

Mr.  Wold.  Y^es,  sir. 

Mr.  Howp:.  That  is  the  point  I  was  trying  to  get  out  yesterday.  I 
was  trying  to  show  that  the  error  in  the  sundry  civil  l)ill  constrained 
the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  to  be  extra  cautious  in  the  enroll- 


J 


PRINTIN(}    OF    mLLS    AND    JOINT    KESOLUTION8.  75 

ment  of  sii])se(iiieiit-nieasuro,s.     Now,  Mr.  Wold,  yoiisay  Mr.  McKcimcy 
was  waitinu-  foi-  tlic  pap(M's  in  the  case^ 
I      Mr.  WoLi).  Yes,  sir. 

;      j\Ir.  Howe.   From  whom  would  ho  naturally  icccivo  thonr!' 
'      Mr.  Wold.   I  could  not  tell  you  that.     I  suppose  they  would  conic 
r  from  somebody  in  the  House — from  the  Speaker's  table,  presumal)ly. 
)      Mr.  Howe.  From  the  Speaker's  table  or  from  the  Committee  on 
Public  Buildinos  and  Grounds? 

Mr.  AVoi.D.   From  the  Speaker's  table,  because  the  Senate  officially 
notitied  the  House  that  they  had  agreed  to  the  conference.     Then  it 
would  lay  upon  the  Speaker's  table  until  the  proper  official  delivered 
j  it  to  Mr.  McKeimey. 

^     Mr.  Howe.   Is   it  not  a  fact  that  the  Senate  met  at  10  o'clock  on 
Saturda}',    in   the  expectation    of    receiving  that    conference   repoi't 
immediately  after  convening-,  and  that  they  had  to  wait  until  after  1 
o'clock  before  it  came  over? 
Mr.  Wold.  So  1  understand. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  is  pretty  generally  known  around  the  Senate  that 
there  was  confusion  on  the  part  of  the  House  as  to  their  rights  to  sub- 
mit that  report,  and  that  some  one  came  over  here  from  the  House  on 
a  mission  of  investigation,  as  it  were.  Do  3'ou  know  anything  about 
that?  '  ■  " 

Mr.  Wold.  Not  that  I  know  of.  Probably  Mr.  Piatt  does,  as  he 
would  be  the  man  who  handles  all  the  papers  in  the  case. 

Mr.  Howe.  Speaking  from  your  experience,  have  there  been  any 
unreasonable  delays  on  the  part  of  the  Printing  Office  in  returning- 
matter  to  the  Senate? 

Mr.  Wold.   Not  as  long  as  I  have  been  in  the  Secretary's  office. 
Mr.  Howe.  You  have  never  heard  of  any  criticism  of  that  kind? 
Mr.  Wold.  No,  sir. 

The  committee  (at  4.30  o'clock  p.  m.)  adjourned,  subject  to  notice. 


Committee  on  Printing,  United  States  Senate, 

mtshmgton,  D.  C,  July  12, 1906—3  o  dock  p.  m. 

Met  pursuant  to  notice. 

Present:  Mr.  Albert  H.  Howe,  representing-  the  Committee  on 
Printing. 

Also,  Captain  Brian,  Mr.  Young,  Mr.  Morgan.  Mr.  Benjamin  S. 
Piatt,  Mr.  W.  A.  Smith,  Mr.  Wold,  and  others. 

STATEMENT  OF  BENJAMIN  S.  PLATT,  ENROLLING  CLERK,  UNITEB 

STATES  SENATE. 

Mr.  Howe.  We  are  glad  to  see  you,  Mr.  Piatt,  because  we  want  to 
get  some  facts 

Mr.  Platt.  I  sent  the  resolution  over  to  you,  init  I  did  not  know 
you  would  get  to  work  so  soon. 

Mr.  Howe.  We  want  to  get  some  facts  about  the  bills  regarding' 
which  there  was  some  criticism  in  the  latter  days  of  the  session.  Will 
you  state  your  full  name  and  the  position  you  occup}^? 


7G  PRINTING    OF    lilLLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Platt.  My  nanio  is  Benjainiu  S.  Piatt,  (uirollino-  clerk  of  tht 
United  States  Senate.  1  am  engrossing  and  enroUint;' clerk.  I  do  not 
8U])i)()se  it  makes  any  difference. 

Mr.  lIowK.  And  you  have  occupied  that  position  for  a  considerable 
leno-th  of  tim(\  have  you  not!! 

Mr.  Pi.ATT.  Well,  I  ha\'e  been  here  as  assistant  enrolling-  clerk  and 
as  enrolling  clerk  for  al)out  twenty-two  3'ears.  I  think  I  have  been 
enroilino-  clerk  about  twenty  3'ears.  I  came  here  in  188-I-,  I  believe, 
under  (xcneral  McCook.  My  immediate  predecessor,  Mr.  Sympson, 
died  either  during  my  first  or  second  year — 1  do  not  know  just  which 
it  was — just  after  the  adjournment  of  Congress. 

]Mr.  Howe.  ]\Ir.  Platt.  the  two  bills  regai'ding  which  there  Avas 
criticism  as  to  delay,  seem  to  have  been  the  general  deficienc}'  bill  and 
the  public  l)uildings  bill. 

Mr.  Platt.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  1  would  like  to  get  some  facts  from  you  as  to  the 
handling  of  those  two  measures  in  the  Clerk''s  office  of  the  Senate. 
Do  3'ou  recall  about  what  hour  the  general  deficiency  bill  passed  the 
Senate  ? 

Mr.  Platt.  I  am  a  little  in  doubt  about  the  general  deficiency  bill 
and  about  the  public  buildings  bill.  I  think  the  public  buildings  bill 
passed  first,  but  I  am  not  certain  a])Out  that. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  know,  but  if  it  is  agreeable  to  j^ou  I  wovdd  like  to 
take  up  each  measure  separately  and  get  the  facts  about  that.  The 
testimony  that  has  been  taken  would  show  that  the  general  deficiency 
bill  passed  the  Senate  sometime  Thursdav  evening? 

Mr.  Platt.  That  is  right. 

]\Ir.  Howe.  Do  vou  remember  about  when? 
-  Mr.  Platt.  No,  I  am  a  little  mixed  as  to  which  one  I  got  first.     I 
think  I  received  the  public  buildings  l)ill  first,  and  that  would  be  about, 
possibly,  10  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  if  you  received  the  pul)lic  buildings  bill  first  you 
could  not  have  received  the  general  deficiency  bill  until  after  10  o'clock, 
certainly. 

Mr.  Platt.  I  am  in  doubt  about  it.  Mr.  Wold,  if  you  will  look  in 
Mr.  Home's  desk,  if  you  can  get  in  there,  there  is  a  note  that  I  made 
or  that  he  made  for  me. 

j\Ir.  Howe.  We  will  pass  that  bv  for  a  minute.  It  certainly  passed 
the  Senate  on  Thursdav  night. 

Mr.  Platt.  I  sent  the  public  buildings  bill  to  the  Printing  Office  first. 

]Mr.  Howe.  I  am  coming  to  the  question  of  the  pulilic  buildings  bill 
later. 

Mr.  Platt.  All  right. 

'Mr.  Howe.  You  sent  the  engrossed  copy  for  the  general  deficiency 
bill  to  the  Public  Printer  that  evening^ 

jNIr.  Platt.  No;  I  sent  my  copy,  not  the  engrossed  copy.  It  would 
not  be  that.  I  sent  my  copy  for  the  deficiency  bill  to  the  Government 
Printing  Office  between,  1  think,  11  and  12  o'clock.^ 

Mr,  Howe.  At  night? 

Mr.  Platt.  At  night.     I  did   not  get  the  proof  back  that  night  . 
because  it  was  very  late,  but  I  received  the  general  deficiency  bill  the  j 
next  morning.     I  asked  Mr.  Dierken — I  think  he  was  in  charge — to 
.send  me  the  proof  next  morning  by  half  past  8. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  did  not  want  the  proof  ihat  night,  yourself^  1 


PKlNTINa    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KKSOLUTIONS.  77 

Mr.  Platt.  Woll,  1  did  not  see  tluit  we  could  j^et  it  luick  that  iiioht 
very  Avell  unless  it  was  2  or  3  o'clock  in  the  niorniuo-. 

Mr.  Howe.   Did  the  House  want  it  messaged  over  that  nioht^ 

Mr.  Platt.  Oh,  no;  they  did  not  want  it  niessaocd  over.  They 
were  not  in  session. 

Mr.  HowK.   1  undei'stood  the  House  was  in  scission. 

Mr.  Platt.  Not  at  that  hour. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  that  the  House  was  ratluM'  anxious  to  get  the  g<'n- 
eral  deficiency  bill  that  nights 

Mr.  Platt.  No,  sir;  the}"  were  not  in  session  at  that  hour.  The 
man  who  makes  up  the  bills  with  the  Senate  amendments  numbered, 
came  over  to  me  and  wanted  to  know  what  time  he  could  get  it.  and  1 
told  him  he  could  not  get  it  that  night;  but  the  House  was  not  in  ses- 
sion at  that  hour. 

Mr.  Howio.  1  see.  AVell,  j'ou  got  the  proof  ])ack  next  morning, 
you  say  ? 

iVlr.  Platt.  I  got  the  proof  back.  l)ut  instead  of  being  half  past  8  it 
was  20  minutes  past  *.)  when  I  got  the  proof  back  on  the  deficiency 
bill.     That  is  mv  recollection,  that  it  was  20  minutes  past  9. 

Mr.  How^E.  We  have  testimony  to  the  effect  that  the  proof  was  sent 
to  you  next  morning  at  8.25. 

Islv.  Platt.  That  is  a  mistake. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Can  the  Printing  Office  show  deliver}^  at  any  specified 
time  on  that  proof,  Captain  Brian!' 

Mr.  Platt.  Because  I  telephoned  for  the  proof  in  the  morning  to 
Mr.  Dierken,  and  wanted  to  know  how  soon  it  could  be  up,  and  it 
came  to  me,  I  am  very  sure,  al)out  20  minutes  past  9.  In  fact,  as  my 
memory  is  refreshed  now,  1  think  the  messenger  brought  it  to  me  and 
I  said,  "Where  have  you  been  so  long^  I  understand  this  was  on  the 
wa}"  some  time  ago,"  and  if  I  am  not  mistaken — I  would  not  be  dead 
sure  about  it — I  think  he  said  "  No;  I  have  been  delivering  something 
to  the  House."  I  said,  "You  should  have  come  here  first."  That  is 
my  recollection.  Howe\er,  that  is  a  very  small  matter,  it  seems  to 
me.  the  difference  between  sending  it  at  8.25  and  20  minutes  past  9. 

^Ir.  Howe.  Had  ^ou  asked  for  it  earlier^ 

Mr.  Platt.  I  asked  the  Piinting  Office  where  it  was  and  why  it  was 
not  here,  and  Mr.  Dierken,  I  believe — I  have  almost  always  had  my 
connniuiication  with  Mr.  Dierken — said  it  had  ))een  started. 

]\Ir.  Howe.  That  was  about  when? 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  that  was  before  9  o'clock,  or  al)Out  9  o'clock,  but 
it  had  not  reached  me.  I  was  more  anxious  about  that,  because  ni}" 
public  buildings  bill  was  all  right.     I  was  not  so  anxious  about  that. 

Mr.  Howe.  This  matter  that  came  to  you  shorth'  after  9  o'clock 
was  proof,  was  it? 

]Mr.  Platt.  That  was  proof. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  you  presumably  inspected  it  and  returned  it  for 
correction  ? 

Mr.  Platt.  Let  me  go  back  a  moment.  That  bill  was  reported  on 
Thursdav  morning.  It  was  sent  down  to  the  Printing  Office,  with  the 
Senate  amendments,  by  Mr.  Gibbons.  It  came  l)ack  here  complete,  I 
!  think,  somewhere  along  toward  12  or  1  o'clock,  and  that  was  the  ear- 
jliest  I  could  get  hold  of  that  bill,  to  write  my  amendments.  I  antici- 
ipate  all  amendments. 

Mr.  Howe.  Certainly. 


78  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  PiiATT.  I  imincdiateh'  put  Mr.  Home  to  work,  and  in  the  coui-se 
of  an  hour  and  a  half  or  so  he  had  completed  the  work  of  preparing; 
tiie  copy  for  the  amendments. 

Mr.  ilowE.  That  was  not  an  unusual  consumption  of  time^ 

Mr.  Platt.  Not  by  any  means.  It  was  remarkably  (juick  work. 
AVe  sent  that  down  to  the  Printino-  Ottice  and  1  had  it  back — I  do  not 
know  what  titne;  I  will  not  say  what  time,  as  I  do  not  know  just  what 
time — but  it  was  back  in  time,  and  the  Senate  went  on  with  their  work 
of  passinu-  that  bill.  1  coukl  not  do  any  more  about  my  amendments 
until  they  got  through  with  their  bill  on  the  floor  of  the  Senate, 
excepting  to  get  an  amendment  occasionall}"  and  write  it  out.  Then 
after  the  Senate  passed  the  bill  1  had  to  prepare  the  other  copy  of 
the  amendments  that  had  been  put  in  the  bill  on  the  floor,  which  we 
did,  and  sent  it  to  the  Printing  Oftice  that  night,  Thursday  night. 
Generally  a  bill  is  reported  on  one  day  and  taken  up  maybe  the  next 
day  or  three  or  four  or  Ave  days  after.  1  get  my  amendments  written 
immediately  as  they  come  in,  and  if  a  day  or  two  are  consumed  in 
passing  a  bill,  1  amend  my  })ill  e\"erv  night  and  send  it  to  the  Printing 
Otiice,  get  the  proof  back  again,  and  keep  it  going  in  that  way;  ))ut  in 
the  last  da}'  of  the  session,  when  a  bill  is  passed,  it  is  impossible  for 
nie  to  write  out  the  amendments  and  put  them  in  until  the  bill  is 
passed.     I  can  not  disturb  them  at  the  desk  and  get  the  copy  always. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  you  got  this  back  next  morning  sliortl}-  after  !• 
o'clock,  3'ou  say? 

Mr.  Platt.  Shortl}^  after  9  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  presumably 

Mr.  Platt.  Read  my  proof. 

Mr.  Howe.  Oh,  3'es;  you  read  your  proof  and  returned  it  to  the 
Printing  Oftice? 

Mr.  Pi-ATT.  J  read  my  proof  and  returned  it  to  the  Printing  Office. 

Mr.  Howe.   When  did  you  get  it  back  flnally  in  its  corrected  form? 

jNIr.  Platt.   We  had  it  back  with  the  Senate  amendments  numbered- 
the  deflciency  bill  we  are  speaking  of  now? 

Mr.  Howe.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr  Platt.  Well,  I  got  that  bill  back  betw^een  1  and  2  o'clock,  I 
think. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Wold  returned  to  the  room  with  the  note  referred 
to  by  Mr.  Platt.) 

Mr.  Platt.  Let  me  see  if  I  have  a  note  here,  if  I  may;  I  do  not 
know  whether  I  have  or  not.  I  got  the  deficiency  bill  back  from  the 
Printing  Office  somewhere  near  1  o'clock,  with  my  Senate  amendments 
numbered.  Then  I  compared  the  bill  again,  because  I  had  not  read  a 
lot  of  the  amendments  that  were  in  the  bill.  I  had  it  here,  though,  in 
the  engrossed  state.  If  there  were  any  slight  amendments,  or  an 
amendment  that  was  left  out,  1  would  either  send  it  back  to  the  Print- 
ing Office,  or  if  it  was  a  line  that  was  left  out  I  would  write  it  in  or 
print  it  in.  But  I  got  that  back,  read  my  amendments,  and  found  the 
bill,  I  think,  substantially  correct,  and  then  messaged  it  to  the  House. 

]Mr.  Howe.   About  when  ^ 

Mr.  Platt.  Between  1  and  2  o'clock.     That  would  be  Fridav. 

Mr.  How^E.  Now,  the  print  of  the  bill  that  Senator  Hale  wanted 
use  in  conference,  of  course,  could  not  have   been  supplied  to  hir 
before  it  was  messaged  to  the  House  and  enrolled  b}'  the  House? 


PRINTING    OK    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KKSOLUTION8.  79 

Mr.  1*LATT.  Yes;  it  could  have  I)ihmi,  bocauso  the  man  who  makes 
up  the  l)ills  with  the  Senate  anietiduietits  nuuiJjered  could  have  j^'oue 
to  the  Pi'intino-  Oliic(%  which  we  have  done  time  and  time  aoaiu.  and 
have  made  out  his  amendments  there,  and  then  they  probal)ly  would 
have  received  that  bill  at  the  House  souk^  little  time  earlier  than  thev 
did  receive  it, 

]\[r.  Howe.   Who  is  that  man  if 

Mr.  Pi>ATT.  1  do  not  know  his  name.  Wakefield — no;  1  do  not 
know  his  name. 

]Mr.  HowK.   Is  he  an  emplovee  of  your  olHce^ 

Mr.  Pi-ATT.  No;  of  the  House.  The  House  oenerally  prints  the 
hills  of  the  Senate  with  the  amendments  numbered— that  is,  dove- 
tailed in  the  l)ill.  They  do  not  print  our  amendments  the  way  we 
print  them;  1)ut  they  take  our  amendments  and  dovetail  them  in  the 
deficiency  bill,  with  the  Senate  amendments  numbered. 

j\Ir.  Howe.  And  the  print  resulting'  therefrom  is  the  print  the  con- 
ference conunittee  wanteds 

Mr.  Platt.  That  is  the  print  the  conference  committee  wanted. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  you  thiidv  the  conferees  would  have  gotten  that 
pri?it  more  (juickly  if  some  attache  of  the  House  had  taken  the  trouhle 
to  go  over  and  get  an  advanced  cop}"?    . 

]Mr.  Platt.  If  he  had  gone  over,  3'es.     I  telephoned  to  that  gentle- 
man, I  think  in  the  morning:,  that  I  had  the  amendments  ready  and 
had  sent  them  ])ack  to   the  Printing  Office,  and  I  presumed  that  he 
would  go  down  thej'e,  ))ecause  the  night  before  he  asked  me  if  he  went 
.  down  there  if  it  would  do  anV  goodon  that  night.     I  told  him  I  did  not 
think  it  would  do  any  good,  but  he  could  go  if  he  wanted  to.     He  was 
the  judge  of  that,  not  I.     1  think  thei'e  may  have  possibly  been  an 
I  hour  lost  there,  but  I  would  not  say  that  for  sure;  but  I  thiidv  there 
I  was  some  little  time  lost  there. 

I  Mr.  Howe.  There  seems  to  have  been  no  criticism  concerning  the 
general  deficiency  l)ill  beyond  that  point,  so  we  will  turn  our  attention 
now  to  the  pul)lic  l)uildings  bill. 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  I  did  not  know  there  had  been  an}-  criticism  in 
regard  to  the  deficiency  bill  anyway,  excepting  that  they  were  a  little 
anxious  to  get  the  bill  in  conference  a  little  earlier  than  they  did. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  only  criticism  there  was  about  the  deficiency  bill 
was  that  the  conferees  were  delayed  in  getting  that  print  on  which 
they  wanted  to  work,  and  m}"  inquiry  concerning  that  bill  has  been  to 
explain,  or  to  ascertain,  where  the  delay  was,  if  'dny.     Now 

Mr.  Platt.  If  j^ou  will  allow  me,  Mr.  Howe,  I  can  not  conceive 
that  there  was  any  delay,  unless  it  was  in  going  from  here  to  the 
Printing  Office.  If  that  gentleman  who  makes  it  up  had  worked  there 
a  little  he  might  have  saved  a  little  time  there,  but  that  delay  was  not 
much.  The  proof  of  the  pudding  is  in  the  eating,  and  the  bill  was 
ready  and  out  before  the  other  bill  was. 

•j\Ir.  Hoave.  Before  I  get  into  the  public  buildings  bill  in([uiry  just 
let  me  ask  you  whether,  in  ^^our  judgment,  there  was  any  luuiecessary 
delay  in  the  handling  of  the  deficiency  bill  in  your  office^ 

Mr.  Plait.  I  think  not.  I  think,  without  any  doubt,  there  was  not 
a  particle  of  delay  in  the  handling- of  the  bill  in  our  oflice — the  Secre- 
tar3"'s  office. 

Mr.  Howe.  When  did  you  sa}'  the  public  buildings  bill  passed  the 
Senate? 


80  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Platt.  That  passed  Frida}'  iiioht. 

Mr.  Howe.   Friday  nioht^ 

IVlr.  Platt.  Thursday  night.  The  public  1)iuldinos  bill  passed  on 
June  28,  and  that  was  Thursday  night,  I  think. 

Mr.  Howe.  About  when? 

INIr.  Platt.  Well,  I  am  under  the  impression  that  it  was  between 
9  and  10  o'clock.  I  am  not  certain  about  that,  Imt  the  public  build- 
ings bill  and  the  Senate  amendments  were  messaged  to  the  House 
shortly  after  11  o'clock  on  Friday  morning.  That  went  over  before 
the  deticiency  bill  did.  We  had  the  public  buildings  bill.  My  work 
was  back  at  my  office  when  the  messenger  came  there  about  9  o'clock,  , 
or  20  minutes  after  9. 

'My.  Howe.  That  was  Friday  morning l! 

Mr.  Platt.  That  was  Frida}^  morning.  Then  1  ran  over  that  bill 
again. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  proof  of  that,  Mr.  Platt,  was  in  the  same  situation 
that  the  proof  of  the  deticiency  l)ill  was — that  3'ou  did  not  care  for  it 
that  night,  and  got  the  proof  of  it  the  next  morning? 

Mr.  Platt.  I  had  the  public  buildings  bill  ready  before  the  House 
met  the  next  morning,  so  that  ijt  could  not  have  made  any  ditference. 

I  think,  if  I  am  not  mistaken,  the  House  met  at  10  or  10.55  that  morn- 
ing— I  am  not  certain.  I  had  the  public  buildings  bill  ready  to  go 
over  when  the  House  met,  and  it  was  messaged  over  between  10  and 

II  o'clock — shortlv  after  10;  but  it  was  practically  ready  to  go  when 
the  House  met. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  The  House  did  not  meet,  1  think,  until  11. 

Mr.  Platt.  I  think  it  met  at  10.55  that  morning. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  went  over  in  the  first  message? 

Mr.  Platt.  Oh,  yes.  We  did  not  wait  for  anything-.  Just  as  soon 
as  we  had  it  ready  and  the  House  met  we  sent  it  over. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  procedure  over  there,  Mr.  Platt,  after  3'ou  mes- 
saged it  over,  would  be  to 

Mr.  Platt.  To  order  it  printed  with  the  Senate  amendments  num- 
bered, if  they  wanted  it.  That  is,  with  my  amendments,  which  were 
alread}^  numbered  in  my  bill,  dovetailed  into  the  ordinary  bill,  so  that 
the  conferees  would  have  the  l)ill  with  the  amendments  right  before 
them  in  the  one  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  At  what  stage  of  the  proceedings  does  the  House  dis-' 
agree  to  the  amendments — the  minute  it  is  messaged  over? 

Mr.  Platt.  Oh,  yes;  we  sent  that  bill  over  l)etween  10  and  11  o'clock, 
or  shortly  after  11  o'clock,  and  they  disagreed  to  the  Senate  amend- 
ments and  asked  for  a  confei'ence.  Just  at  what  moment,  or  what 
hour  or  half  hour,  they  did  that  1  do  not  know. 

Mr.  Howe.   Well,  that  is  not  material. 

Mr.  Platt.  But  it  was  practicall}^  soon  after  the  bill  went  to  them, 
between  10  and  11. 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  you  recall  about  when  it  was  that  it  went  to  confer-  ■ 
ence,  approximately?  ^ 

Mr.  Platt.  When  it  went  to  conference?  No;  I  do  not.  That 
would  not  come  under  my  notice.  The  House  sends  the  message  that 
they  have  disagreed  to  the  Senate  amendments,  and  ask  a  conference, 
and  I  write  the  message  that  we  insist  upon  our  amendments  and  grant 
the  conference,  and  send  the  bill  back,  and  I  do  not  see  the  bill  again 
until  the}'  agree  or  disagree;  so  that  I  could  not  tell  .you.     Of  course 


PETNTING    OF    KILLS    AND    J<1INT    RESOLUTIONS.  81 

the  jounirtl  dork — the  chM-k  at  the  desk — would  know  just  wliat  tiino 
that  came  hack,  if  there  is  any  reason  why  they  shoukl  know;  hut 
there  never  has  heen  any  reason  why  they  sliouhl  know  it  particularly, 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  you  hai)pen  to  reineuiht*^'  when  the  tirst  conference 
report  on  the  public  buildings  bill  was  submitted^ 

Mr.   Platt.  No,  I  do  not.     When   it  was   submitted^     That  was 
I  Friday  morning.     1  am  under  the  impression  that   the  report  was 
[  submitted  on  Saturday  morning,  ])ut  I  am  not  certain  about  that. 
»       Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Wold  yesterday  testitied.  reading  from  the  Journal, 
that  on.  June  :^9th.  in  the  evening  session,  Mr.  Scott  presented  the 
conference  report  in  part  and  further  insisted  upon  certain  amend- 
ments which  were  in  disagreement,  and  asked  a  further  conference. 

Mr.  Platt.  June  2yth^ 

Mr.  How  E.  That  was  in  the  evening  session  of  Friday.  It  went  to 
conference.  Well,  it  must  have  been  shortly  after  noon.  It  is 
ii>ual 

Mr.  Platt.  It  probal)ly  went  to  conference  along  toward  3  or  4 
I  o'clock.  1  do  not  tliink  it  went  to  conference  much  l)efore  that  in  the 
afternoon  of  the  night  that  it  passed.  I  sent  it  over  there.  Yes;  it 
may  liave  gone  to  conference  before  that.  I  guess  it  did.  It  prob- 
ably went  to  conference  immediately:  probably  within  an  hour  after 
they  received  it.  You  say  Mr.  Wold  testitied  that  the  conference 
report  was  made  Thursday  i 

Mr.  Howe.  That  it  was  made  on  the  evening  of  Friday.  Then  ]\Ir. 
Wold  further  testitied,  reading  from  the  Journal,  that  on  the  80th  the 
second  one  was  presented.  It  seems,  Mr.  Platt.  that  there  was  con- 
>iderable  delay  in  the  submission  of  the  conference  report  on  the 
pul)lic  buildings  bill — the  last  conference  report.  I  gathered  in  some 
way  or  other  that  there  was  some  confusion  as  to  which  House  should 
submit  the  report  tirst.     Do  you  recall  anything  al)Out  that? 

Mr.  Platt.   Well,  there  ought  not  to  have  been  any  confusion. 

Mr.  Howe.  Was  there  confusion? 

Mr.  Platt.  Not  that  I  know  of;  not  that  I  know  of.  Not  being 
inside,  3'ou  know,  I  do  not  catch  onto  all  those  things.  There  is  a 
parliamentaiT  rule  for  proceeding  in  regard  to  conference  reports. 
The  House  that  grants  the  conference  always  should  make  the  repoit 
first,  but  this  conference  report  was  agreed  to  in  part,  and  then  I  pre- 
sume— I  have  not  got  the  conference  report  with  me — unfortunately 
at  the  end  of  the  session  the  conference  reports  are  not  all  sent  to  me 
from  the  other  House,  and  so  I  have  not  got  the  second  conference 
report  on  the  public  buildings  bill  with  me.  Mr.  McKenney  must 
have  that  in  the  ofiice,  and  he  should  have  sent  it  to  me  >o  that  1  could 
keep  my  papers  intact.  But  we  sent  that  bill  back,  or  that  bill  went 
back,  with  the  statement  that  the  Senate  had  agreed  to  the  report  of 
the  committee  on  conference  on  the  disagreeing  votes  of  the  two 
Houses  on  the  amendments  of  the  Senate,  and  so  on.  We  sent  that 
back,  and  then  the  House 

».  Mr.  Howe.  That  was  about  1.45  p.  m.  ? 
Mr.  Platt.   It  was  possibly  about  that  tim(\  as  well  as  I  can  recol- 
lect now.     I  have  not  any  tiote  of  it.     I  would   not  judge  there  was 
any  delay  about  it.     The  thing  went  right  along. 

Mr.  How  E.  There  w^as  no  delay  in  the  Senate  action  at  all,  I  under- 
stand. 


82  I'RINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Platt.  Then  the  House  insisted  upon  the  amendment  disagreed 
to.  We  sent  the  report  back  that  we  had  been  unable  to  agree  upon 
amendments  5,  11,  14,  17,  and  so  forth,  and  the  House  then  insisted 
upon  their  amendments,  fflid  asked,  as  I  remem])er,  a  conference.  I 
may  l)e  a  little  at  fault  on  that,  Init  I  think  the  House  insisted  and 
asked  a  conference,  and  then  we  granted  the  conference  again;  and  if 
that  is  so  we  ought  to  have  made  the  first  report. 

Captain  Briax.  May  I  ask  right  there,  if  you  stated  a  while  ago  that 
this  hrst  conference  report  was  agreed  to  about  1  o'clock  on  Saturday  '. 

iNIr.  Platt.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.  I  think,  by  the  Record,  that  is  a  mistake,  and  that 
the  second  conference  was  ordered  on  the  29th,  so  that  the  iirst  report 
was  made  on  Friday. 

Mr.  Howe.  Friday  is  the  29th. 

Captain  Brian.  1'hat  is  when  the  first  report  was  made;  not  on 
Saturday. 

Mr,  Howe.  The  second  report  was  made  on  Saturday. 

Mr.  Platt.  The  first  report  of  the  committee  on  conference  a\  as 
made  Friday  night,  along  toward  lU  or  11  o'clock,  I  think,  after  the 
House  had  adjourned,  if  I  am  not  mistaken.  Does  the  Recoi'd  show 
a  message  over  that  night  or  the  next  morning?  I  think  it  was 
messaged  over  the  next  morning,  because  the  House  had  adjourned. 

Captain  Brian.  I  do  not  know  when  it  was  messaged  over, 

Mr.  Platt.  It  was  pretty  late  that  night,  because  I  loaned  the  con- 
ference report  to  the  official  reporters  to  make  up  their  proceedings 
for  the  Record,  and  1  am  under  the  impression  that  the  conference 
report  did  not  go  back  that  night.  If  it  did,  it  was  put  in  the  action 
of  the  House  immediately  the  next  morning. 

Mr.  Howe.  Well,  the  Journal  shows  that  on  June  29,  which  was 
Friday,  Mr,  Scott  presented  the  conference  report  on  the  public  build- 
ings bill  in  part,  and  further  insisted  upon  certain  amendments  which 
were  in  disagreement,  and  asked  a  further  conference.  Under  that 
procedure  which  House  should  make  the  report  first? 

jSIr.  Platt.  The  House  which  granted  the  conference  should  have 
made  its  report  first.  That  reversed  the  order  of  procedure.  I  had 
forgotten.     I  have  not  that  other  conference  report 

Mr.  Howe.  There  seems  to  have  been  a  great  deal  of  time,  iMr. 
Platt,  between  the  moment  when  the  conference  agreed  on  the  second 
report  and  the  time  when  the  report  was  submitted  in  the  House? 

Mr.  Platt.  That  I  know  nothing  about. 

Mr.  Howe.  As  1  have  said,  there  was  an  impression  around  that 
the  House  were  in  doubt  as  to  their  rights,  and  that  the}"  were  waiting 
for  the  Senate  to  submit  the  report,  and  the  Senate  on  the  other  hand 
were  waiting  for  the  House  to  submit  their  I'eport,  and  that  some  one 
came  over  from  the  House  to  inquire  why  the  Senate  had  not  sub- 
mitted this  report. 

Mr.  Platt.  They  would  not  inquire  of  me.  I  would  know  nothing^ 
Avhatever  about  that. 

^Ir,  HoAVE.  Of  whom  would  they  inquire? 

Mr.    Platt.  They  would   inquire    inside,    of   the   Journal  clei 
undoubtedly.     If  the}^  had  come  to  me  I  would  have  told  them  how 
conference  report  should  be  made,  but  I  have  no  recollection  now 
anybody  coming  to  me  and  asking  where  the  conference  report  should 
be  made. 


ing 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS     AND    .HUNT    KESOLl'l  I<  >NS.  83 

Mr.  IIowE.  Iliivo  you  nuy  recollection  of  anvoiie  coniiiio'  from  the 
House  aiul  niakiuo'  such  an  in((uii\v^ 

^Ir.  Platt.  No:  I  have  not.  What  information  have  you  as  to 
when  the  first  conference  report  was  made,  did  you  say  (  That  was 
made 

Mr.  Howe.  On  June  !>1>. 

Mr.  Platt.   Friday  niolit. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  In  the  evening? 

Mr.  Platt.   Ves;  it  was  along  toward  10,  11,  or  12  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  Tiie  Record  shows  that  shortly  after  the  Senate  assem- 
Ijled  on  Saturday,  June  80,  Senator  Scott  asked  the  Senate  to  have 
patience,  and  said  that  he  wished  to  state  "that  as  soon  as  the  report 
could  be  written  up  ])y  the  clerk  the  conferees  on  the  public  l)uildings 
1  ill  have  agreed  on  a  report,  which  will  be  presented."  That  was 
shortly  after  the  asseml)ling-  of  the  Senate  on  Saturday— shortly  after 
10  o'clock.  The  conferees  had  agreed,  and  it  was  about  1.30  o'clock 
on  that  day  when  the  conference  report  was  submitted. 

Mr.  Platt.  In  the  Senate? 

Mr.  Howe.   In  the  Senate. 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  that  did  not  delay  the  matter.  It  expedited  the 
matter  to  some  extent,  because  if  the  House  had  made  the  conference 
report  first,  as  really  they  shoidd  have  done  under  the  parliamentar}' 
procedure,  the  papers  would  all  have  l)een  sent  back  here  and  the}^ 
would  have  had  to  lay  here  until  we  had  agreed  to  the  conference 
report,  before  Mr.  McKenney  could  get  the  papers  to  go  to  work  on 
his  bill;  so  I  do  not  realh'  think  there  was  any  delay  there.  I  could 
not  conceive  that  there  was  much  delay  on  Saturday  morning  on  that 
bill,  from  the  time  the  conference  report  was  submitted  here  until  Mr. 
McKenney  got  the  bill  to  enroll. 

Ml".  Howe.  But  the  fact  was  that  Congress  was  Avaiting  and  waiting 
for  the  submission  of  that  conference  report. 

Mr.  Platt.  Yes:  but  if  the  conferees  did  not  have  it  read}*  Congress 
had  to  wait. 

Mr.  Howe.  But  the  conferees  agreed,  according  to  Senator  Scott's 
statement,  early  in  the  morning. 

Mr.  Platt.  That  may  be,  but  they  have  to  read  over  the  conference 
report,  and  that  would  take  some  time  to  do. 

Mr.  Howe.  Would  it  take  until  so  late  in  the  day 

Mr.  Platt.  If  I  had  the  second  conference  report  I  could  tell  more 
about  it,  but  I  have  not  got  it.  Here  is  the  first  conference  report, 
and  by  examination  you  will  see  that  it  took  the  clerks  of  the  House 
and  Senate  committees  some  time  to  make  up  this  conference  report. 
Then  it  was  sent  back  and  they  disagreed,  and  then,  you  see,  that 
had  to  go  into  another  conference.  -Just  what  time  that  second  con- 
ference was  reported  I  am  unable  to  say.  In  fact,  I  do  not  know 
what  time  I  received  it.  I  was  too  busy  to  note  whether  that  came  to 
me  at  10  o'clock,  11  o'clock,  1  o'clock,  or  what  time,  because  I  did  not 
suppose  there  would  be  any  confusion  about  the  matter.  If  I  had 
supposed  there  would  l)e  I  would  have  made  notes  about  the  matter, 
so  that  I  could  have  spoken  definitely  al)Out  it:  but  the  fact  was  that 
we  did  not  meet  until  10  o'clock,  and  it  was  some  time  after  that  l)efore 
the  conference  report  was  submitted  and  sent  back.  >sow,  where  the 
delay  was,  whether  it  was  in  tlie  House  or  the  Senate,  and  the 
length  of  that  delay,  I  do  not  know.     If  I  had  the  second  conference 


84  PRINTING    OF    BILL!^    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

report  and  could  look  at  the  amendments  1  could  tell  how  long-  it 
would  take  a  clerk  to  write  otf  those  amendments  and  get  the  hill 
back  again. 

^[r,  YouNO.   Would  this  help  you  [handing-  paper  to  witness]? 
Ml-.  Platt.   Well.  I  should  thiid<  an  hour's  time  would  ))e  sufficient 
to  make  up  that  second  conference  report.     How  long  they  were  I  do 
not  know. 

Mr.  Hc^wE.  I  shall  have  some  testimony  to-morrow  from  Mr.  Steele, 
who  had  something  to  do  with  the  writing  of  that  conference  report. 
]Mr.  Platt.  But  1  can  tell  you — have  you  any  testimony  as  to  when 
the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  got  the  second  conference  report,  so 
that  he  could  go  on  and  enroll  the  bill?  I  might  give  you  some  infor- 
mation about  that. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  has  been  brought  out.     Do  you  recall,  Captain 
Brian,  when  that  was^ 
Captain  Brian.  About  half  past  2,  I  think,  it  was  testified  to. 
Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Wold  says  he  went  over  to  Mr.  McKenney's  room 
at  2. 15  and  he  had  not  commenced  to  prepare  the  copv  for  the  enrolled 
bills. 

jNIr.  Platt.  The  conference  report  had  to  be  made  up  on  Saturday 
morning  and  the  Senate  did  not  meet  until  10  o'clock.  It  would  take, 
sav,  an  hour  for  those  clerks  to  make  it  np.  If  they  had  not  com- 
menced before  10  o'clock,  that  would  be  11  o'clock.  Just  what  time 
we  sent  that  back  to  the  House  I  can  not  say,  but  Mr.  ^IcKenney  got 
the  conference  report  on  the  pu'olic  buildings  bill  about  half  past  2 
o'clock  to  make  up  his  copy  for  the  printer. 

Mr.  Howe.  Captain  lirian,  was  not  that  the  matter  that  went  to  you 
at  2.35  and  came  back  at  3.25!' 

Captain  Brian.  No,  sir;  this  is  the  copy  that  reached  us  at  4  o'clock. 
Mr.  Howe.  Yes;  I  recall  now. 
Captain  Brian.  It  was  the  deticiency  bill  at  2.35. 
Mr.  Howe.   You  got  the  copv  at  4  o'clock? 
:Mr.  Platt.  Of  what? 

Captain  Brian.  My.  ^NIcKenney's  enrolled  copy. 
^Ir.  Platt.  Of  the  public  l)uildings  bilH 
Captain  Brian.  Y'es. 

Mr.  Platt.  Mr.  McKenney  got  the  conference  report  to  make  up 
his  bill  in  the  neighborhood  of  half  past  2  o'clock.  Then  he  had  to 
make  up  his  copy  for  the  printers,  from  his  bill,  from  our  amend- 
ments and  from  his  conference  report.  There  are  three  things  that 
that  man  had  to  have  before  him  to  make  up  his  bill,  and  there  was 
an  amendment  in  almost  every  line  of  that  bill,  or  an  amendment 
between  every  other  line  or  so.  It  is  no  small  job  to  do  it.  I  do  not 
know  just  when  he  got  his  copy  down  to  Captain  Brian,  or  Mr.  Young, 
and  what  time  it  came  back  from  the  Printing  Othce.  That  I  do  not 
know.  Captain  Brian  has  prol)ably  testified  about  that;  but  I  do 
know  there  was  considerable  delay  here  about  the  time  we  were  going 
to  adjourn.  At  hrst  the  I'eport  came  that  we  were  going  to  adjourn 
at  half  past  11  and  then  at  half  past  12.  If  they  had  been  my  bills 
I  could  have  told,  and  I  guess  probably  Captain  Brian  will  l)ear  me 
out  in  this,  within  about  an  hour's  time  of  when  they  could  adjourn. 

It  may  be  that  the  powers  that  be  did  not  inquire  of  anybody  who 
knew  what  time  they  could  set  for  adjournment;  but  it  was  very  pro- 
voking to  have  the  President  compelled  to  stay  here  until  half-past  8 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  85 

o'clock  at  nig-ht.  But,  really,  as  far  as  I  can  see,  it  was  unavoidable, 
except  in  one  way.  I  do  not  testify  to  thai  as  being-  a  sure  tiiino-.  but 
I  went  over  to  tiie  enrollino-  room.  1  in(|uired  of  the  Printing-  Ottice 
about  what  time  the  l)ill  would  be  up  carr3'ing  the  appro|)riations  for 
the  public  buildings  bill.  It  was  not  any  of  my  attair,  but  I  inipiired, 
and  they  told  me  that  would  be  up  about  6  o'clock,  and  that  the  pu1>- 
lic  buildings  bill  would  follow  shortly.  They  did  not  say  just  what 
time.  So  1  went  in  and  told  the  Secretary.  They  were  ail  impatient 
there  in  the  Presidenfs  room,  and  I  told  the  Secretary  about  it.  I 
said.  "You  can  tell  the  President,  Mr.  Secretary,  that  the  bill  will  l)e 
over  here — the  bill  carrying-  the  appropriations — about  «>  o'clock, 
ready  for  signature;  and  the  other  bill,  as  1  understand  it,  will  be  up 
shortly.'' 

The  President  said — I  do  not  know  whether  I  should  relate  it  or 
not,  but  I  do  not  know  as  it  would  make  any  difference — the  President 
said,  "'  1  will  svait  until  7  o'clock,  but  I  would  like  it  better  if  I  could 
get  away  a  little  before  that."  AVe  said  that  from  all  accounts  at  that 
hour  we  thought  possibly  he  might  get  away  at  7  o'clock.  So  then  I 
went  over  to  the  House,  to  iMr.  McKenney's  room,  to  find  out  what 
he  was  doing.  He  was  busy  thei-e  with  his  two  clerks,  and  when  1 
got  a  chance  I  said,  "Mac,  what  time  will  the  public  buildings  bill  l)e 
over  to  the  Senate?"     He  said,  "I  don't  know;  it  will  be  some  time 

yet." 

Mr.  Howe.  What  reason  did  he  give  for  thati 

Mr.  Platt.  He  sa3's,  "I  do  not  know;  it  will  be  some  time  yet 
before  that  bill  will  be  over."  He  says,  "I  find  a  mistake  in  nearly 
every" — he  was  reading  the  enrolled  copy  then,  the  parchment  copy — 
he  says,  '"I  find  a  mistake  in  every  page,  or  almost,  or  every  other 
page,  and  have  to  send  it  l)ack  to  the  Printing-office  to  be  corrected." 
It  would  take  ten  minutes  to  get  to  the  Printing  Office,  and  they  would 
have  to  make  that  correction,  and  put  that  form  on  the  press  again, 
and  it  would  take  a  man  ten  minutes  to  get  back  again,  and  by  that 
time  another  sheet  was  ready  to  go  b.ick.  I  presume,  or  may  be  before; 
but  whether  those  mistakes  were  Mr.  McKenney's  mistakes  or  the 
fault  of  the  Printing-  Office  I  do  not  know. 

Mr.  Howe.  We  have  testimony  on  that  subject. 

^Ii-.  Platt.  I  do  not  know  anything  about  that. 

Mr.  Howe.  We  understand  there  were  seven  pages  containing  Capi- 
tol errors,  and  thi-ee  pages  containing-  Printing  Office  errors. 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  that  I  know  nothing  about.  There  was  a  delay 
there,  but  where  it  was  I  do  not  know,  or  whose  fault  it  was  I  do  not 
know.     Probably  it  was  unavoidaljle. 

Mr.  Howe.  Would  you  call  it  a  delay,  or  simply  say  that  it  was  a 
consumption  of  a  legitimate  amount  of  time,  considering  the  magni- 
tude and  complexity  of  the  work? 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  I  think  the  delay  was  rather  unavoidable  and  yet 
I  do  not  know  why  every  page  or  every  other  page  should  go  back. 
I  do  not  put  the  blame  on  anybody;  I  do  not  want  to  do  that,  l)ut  I 
can  not  quite  conceive  how  you  w^ould  prepai-e  the  copy  for  a  bill  of 
that  character  and  then  when  you  get  the  enrolled  copy  back  have  a 
mistake  on  every  page  or  every  other  page,  or  two  or  three  mistakes. 
1  think  there  might  have  been  some  time  that  might  have  been  saved 
there,  but  1  can  not  say.     It  was  not  my  bill  and  I  can  not  say. 


86  PRINTING    OB'    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  ,you  any  theory  as  to  why  so  much  time  elapsed 
between  the  agreement  of  the  conferees  on  the  public  buildings  bill 
and  the  time  when  the  conference  report  was  oti'ered  in  the  Housed 

Mr.  Pi. ATT.  1  have  no  theory  whatever,  l)ecause  I  do  not  know  what 
time  it  was  otiered  in  the  House.  That  I  do  not  know  anything" 
about. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  time  was  it  otiered  in  the  Housed  We  have  some 
testimony  on  that.  ,   Do  you  recall,  Captain  Brian;! 

Ca])tain  Brian.  1  do  not  know.  The  Senate  took  a  recess  imme- 
diately after  that — at  1.55. 

Mr.  Platt.   Innuediately  after  it  was  otiered  here?  ■ 

Captain  Brian.  Yes,  immediately  after  it  was  otiered  in  the  Senate. 

j\lr.  Platt.  The  Senate  agreed  to  it  and  then  took  a  recess? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes. 

Mr.  Platt.   We  had  agreed  to  it,  then,  at  possildy  1.50. 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Platt,  the  House  took  a  recess  at  1.20  p.  m.,  just 
before  which  they  had  agreed  to  the  conference  report  on  the  public 
buildings  bill. 

Mr.  Platt.  At  1.20? 

Mr.  Howe.  1.20.  Just  before  1.20  they  agreed  to  that  conference 
report.  You  see  Senator  Scott  said  that  the  conferees  had  agreed 
A^ery  shortly  after  10  o'clock  in  the  momiing.  and  there  was  a  lapse  of 
time  between  say  10  o'clock  in  the  morning  and  1.20  which  I  am  try- 
ing to  account  for.  You  have  testitied  that  in  your  judgment,  from 
an  inspection  of  the  matter,  an  hour  would  probably  be  a  sufficient 
amount  of  time  for  the  preparation  of  that  conference  report.  In  the 
light  of  this  statement,  have  vou  any  theory  as  to  why  so  long  a  time 
elapsed  l)etween  the  agreement  and  the  rendering  of  the  report? 

Mr.  Platt.  No,  I  have  not  any  whatever.  It  is  not  in  mv  province 
at  all. 

Mr.  Howe.  Did  Mr.  Hinds  come  over  here  to  inquire  why  the  Sen- 
ate had  not  submitted  that  conference  report? 

Mr.  Platt.  Not  to  me. 

Mr.  Howe.   Do  you  know  whether  he  came  over  or  not? 

Mr.  Platt.  I  do  not.  He  did  not  come  to  me.  I  can  tell  you  that. 
Nobody  came  to  me. 

Mr.  Howe.  That,  of  course,  was  not  my  question.  I  am  simply 
trying  to  get  the  facts  for  the  information  of  the  Committee  on 
Printing. 

Mr.  Platt.  I  beg  your  pardon 

Mr.  Howe.  If  you  have  any  knowledge  on  the  subject,  I  think  it 
Avould  be  quite  proper  that  you  should  give  it. 

Mr.  Platt.  I  beg  your  pardon.  I  answered  to  the  l)est  of  my  al)il- 
ity.  Mr.  Hinds  did  not  come  to  me;  neither  do  I  know  of  his  l)eing 
over  here,  or  anybody  else,  in  regard  to  the  public  buildings  bill,  or 
any  other  bill  on  that  day.  I  did  not  (juite  catch  onto  your  question, 
if  I  did  not  answer  it  properly.  You  tiiink  possibly  that  I  had  some 
knowledge  and  did  not  state  it.  I  have  no  knowledge  whatever.  Mr. 
Hinds  did  not  come  to  me.  Who  he  went  to,  if  he  came,  I  do  not 
know.  I  have  no  knowledge  of  his  coming  here  at  all — not  a  particle 
of  knowledge. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Haveyou  any  knowledge  that  there  was  any  confusion 
in  the  matter? 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    -lOINT    KESOLUTIONS.  87 

P  Mr.  Platt.  I  have  not.  I  know  Mr.  Stoelo  on  several  oeoai^ions 
has  asked  me  how  conference  reports  were  made  and  I  have  told  him. 
He  spoke  to  me  al)Out  that  conference  report  a  day  or  two  before  it 
went  into  conference:  about  how  the  conference  re])ort  siiould  he  ma(h', 
and  asked  me  if  T  would  j>ive  him  information  as  to  making  out  one. 
I  told  him  that  if  there  was  any  way  in  which  I  could  assist  iiim  1 
would  do  it;  but  I  tell  most  everybody,  if  1  am  in  doubt  about  it.  that 

'  Mr.  Cleaves  is  the  best  authority  on  conference  reports  around  the 
building-,  if  I  am  ever  in  doubt  about  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  ]Mr.  Cleaves  p/efers  not  to  testify. 

]Mr.  Platt.  Well.  I  suppose  you  can  not  compel  hiuK  I  can  not 
explain  that.  As  I  say.  the  clerks  often  come  to  me  aljout  conference 
reports,  and  when  I  am  able  to  give  them  the  information  I  give  it  to 
them;  but,  as  I  say.  if  I  am  in  doubt  about  it  I  tell  them  that  Mr.  Cleaves 

i  is  one  of  the  best  .authorities  around  the  Capitol,  and  to  i-un  right 

t  across  the  hall  and  ask  Mr.  Cleaves. 

[.      Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Platt.  that  there  was  confusion  in   regard  to  the 

'  procedure  of  submitting  this  conference  report  is  shown  in  the  Record, 

I   where  Senator  Hale,  on  Saturday,  asked: 

I      Does  either  of  the  Senators  know  which  body  assented  to  the  conference? 

p      Mr.  Warren.  The  House  assented.     The  Senate  asked  for  tlie  last  conference. 

Mr.  Hale.  Is  the  Senator  sure  of  that?  * 

Mr.  Warren*.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hale.  Because  that  will  make  a  difference  in  the  proposition  of  our  taking  a 
f   recess. 

I  quote  that  to  show  that  there  was  confusion,  and  I  thought  that 
you  perhaps  might  have  l)een  aware  of  the  confusion. 

Mr.  Platt.   No:  I  did  not  read  the  Record,  and  I  was  not  in  there 

.  at  the  time.     I  had  no  time  to  be  in  the  vSenate,  and  I  had  no  time  to 

[  listen  to  these  debates  at  that  stage  of  the  session.     I  know  nothing 

about  any  confusion,  and  even  if  there  was  any  confusion  it  was  a 

very  easy  matter  to  settle  it.     It  need  not  have  taken  several  hours, 

,   or  a  half  hour,  to  have  settled  the  matter.     Ten  minutes  would  have 

settled  the  matter. 

Mr.  Howe.  I  should  think  so,  unless  each  House  was  quietly  wait- 
ing with  folded  hands  for  the  other  House  to  report. 

Mr.  Platt.  1  think  not.  They  were  both  anxious  to  get  that  bill 
through.  There  is  no  doubt  about  that;  and  1  do  not  know  why  they 
[  should  have  taken  that  time,  because  ]\Ir.  Hinds  could  have  told  them 
over  there,  or  the  Journal  clerks  could  have  told  them,  that  if  the}'  had 
inquired  over  here  some  of  us  could  have  told  them  where  the  confer- 
ence report  should  have  been  made  first.  But  just  how  much  delay 
there  was  anywhere  I  do  not  know.  As  I  said  before,  if  it  had  been 
my  bill  1  could  have  told  you  where  the  delay  was,  if  there  was  any 
delay,  and  just  how  it  occurred. 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Platt.  in  your  judgment  was  the  Printing  Ottice 
ordinarily  expeditious  in  its  work  during  the  latter  days  of  this  session  i 

]\Ir.  Platt.  I  think  so;  I  think  the}'  were. 

Mr.  Howe.  Your  experience  is  that  the  copy  you  send  them  comes 
i  back  to  you  with  reasonable  alaerit}'^ 

Mr.  Platt.  Yes.  I  have  not  any  hesitation  in  saying  that  I  think 
the  Printing  Office,  on  the  whole,  is  very  expeditious,  iuid,  as  a  gen- 
eral thing,  very  correct.  There  is  occasionally  a  short  delay  some- 
times, when  we  think  there  ought  not  to  be.  and  there  may  be  a  little 


88  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

fault  to  find  ill  the  proof  reading-  .sometimes,  but  those  things  will 
happen  in  the  best-reouhited  families.  You  can  not  help  it.  I  have 
never  lost  anything-  on  account  of  delay  in  the  Printing  Office  since 
we  conunenced  to  enroll  bills  by  printing:  never.  I  have  always 
found  that  the  Printing  Office  has  been,  I  think,  equal  to  the  emergency. 

Mr,  HowK.  Mr.  8pott>^wood,  the  other  day,  in  his  testimony  alluded 
to  your  having  called  at  the  Office— the  Government  Printing  Office — 
and  having  made  some  such  expression  as  the  one  you  have  just  made. 
Do  you  recall  what  you  said  to  Mr.  Spottswood^  It  was  in  the  nature 
of  a  commendation  of  the  Printing  Office  for  the  work  they  had  done. 

Captain  Bhiax.  Mr.  Piatt  called  at  Mr.  Spottswood's  house,  he  said. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Oh,  that  is  right.  He  did  say  that  you  called  at  his 
house^ 

Mr.  Platt.  We  did  make  a  call  at  Mr.  Spottswood's  house  Sunday 
evening.  We  were  going  away  in  a  day  or  two,  and  we  went  around 
there.  He  was  speaking  about  what  the  papers  had  stated  and  what 
Senator  Hale  had  said,  and  I  remember  saying  to  him,  the  same  as  I 
have  said  now,  that  as  a  general  thing  the  Printing  Office  was  pretty 
rapid  in  their  work.  I  do  not  think  1  ever  told  him  that  we  had  not 
any  complaint  to  make,  because  that  would  not  have  been  true.  I 
thought,  when  you  first  spoke,  that  it  might  have  been  in  regard  to  an 
interview  1  had  with  Mr.  Stillings.  I  do  not  recall  just  what  I  did  say 
to  Mr.  Spottswood,  excepting  that  as  a  general  thing  I  had  no  com- 
plaint to  make  about  the  work.  What  little  complaint  I  have  made  I 
have  made  to  the  Printing  Office,  to  Mr.  Stillings. 

Mr.  Howe.  With  reference  to  the  complaints  you  have  had  to  make, 
have  they  related  to  errors  of  such  magnitude  that  they  would  assume 
the  nature  of  a  scandal? 

Mr.  Platt.  Not  in  the  least;  no,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  they  operated  to  subject  Congress  to  unreasona- 
ble inconvenience  i 

Mr.  Platt.  Not  anything  that  has  occurred  in  my  branch  of  the 
business — not  anything. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  say  vou  had  a  conversation  with  Mr.  Stillings? 

Mr.  Pi>ATT.  Oh,  I  say  that;  yes.  Mr.  Stillings  called  me  over  the 
phone  one  day  and  wanted  to  know  if  I  would  come  down  there,  or  if 
he  could  come  up  here:  that  he  would  like  to  see  me.  I  think  it  was 
in  regard  to  something  that  happened  just  previous,  and  I  said  yes, 
that  I  would  come  down  there,  which  1  did.  I  went  thei-e  and  had 
quite  a  long  talk  with  Mr.  Stillings  about  the  work  of  the  Office,  and 
about  the  work  here. 

Captain  Bhian.  Have  you  any  objection  to  stating  how  long  ago 
that  was — about  i 

Mr.  Platt.  No;  1  have  no  objection  whatever;  if  I  could  only 
recall  the  time.     It  was  sometime,  po-ssibly,  in 

Captain  Brian.   Deceml)er,  was  it  not? 

Mr.  Platt.   When? 

Captain  Brian.  In  December. 

Mr.  Platt.  No;  not  as  long  ago  as  that.  It  was  after  the  holiday 
recess  some  time.  I  should  say,  if  I  was  going  to  set  the  time,  that 
it  was  in  March  or  April. 

Captain  Brian.  It  was  before  that.  I  was  there,  and  it  was  before 
that,  I  am  sure. 


PRINTING    OF    BILL8    AND    -JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  89 

Mr.  Platt.  It  niioht  help  mo  ii  little  hit  if  you  \\<nii(l  tell  me  when 
i   you  wer(>  iippointed  cliief  elerk  l)y  Mr.  Stillini>"s. 

Captain  Brian.  That  was  when  he  came  in,  in  November. 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  this  was  some  time  after,  Captain,  beeauso  we  had 
been  in  session  some  time.  It  was  in  regard  to  some  tliinos — l)y  the 
way,  1  think  it  was  in  regard  to  yourself,  if  1  am  not  mistaken.  You 
were  up  here  one  day.  and  something  had  happened  the  day  ))efore.  I 
can  not  recall  what  it  was.  There  was  some  bill  that  the  Senate  was  in  a 
great  hurry  foi',  and  there  Avas  considerable  delay,  whether  avoidable 
or  unavoidal)le  1  do  not  know,  in  getting  that  bill  ))ack;  but  finally  we 
got  some  50  copies  along  about  5  o'clock  or  so.  As  1  rememl)er,  you 
came  in  and  you  were  at  my  desk,  and  we  were  talking  about  it.  I  said 
something  about  it  and  showed  the  bill  to  you,  and  1  said  I  thought 
that  two  hours  would  have  been  sufficient  time  to  have  prepared  that 
bill  and  had  it  back  here,  and  you  looked  it  over  and  said,  ""  Yes;  that 
is  a  two  hours'  job." 

Mr.  Howe.  What  bill  was  that? 

Mr.  Platt.   I  can  not  recall  what  it  was. 

Mr.  Howe.  Captain  Brian,  do  you  recall  what  bill  it  was;' 

Captain  Brian.  I  do  not  remember.  It  was  early  in  the  session.  I 
do  not  remember  the  bill,  l)ut  1  remember  the  circumstances. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  was  not  one  of  these  bills,  was  \t( 

Captain  Brian.  Oh,  no.     That  occurred  in.  January  or  Fel)ruary. 

Mr.  Platt.  No;  it  was  not  one  of  these  bills.  That  was  the  only 
real  delay  that  I  know  of  in  anything  that  has  occurred. 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Platt.  there  is  Mr.  Spottswood's  quotation  of  youi- 
remarks  to  him  [handing  record  to  the  witness].  Do  you  stand  for 
that^ 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  I  might  have  said  to  Mr.  SpottsAvood  sonu'thing 
of  this  nature,  and  possildy,  in  substance,  it  is  what  I  said;  but  1  do 
not  think  I  said  to  Xiv.  Spottswood  [reading],  "That  no  more  than  a 
propel'  amount  of  time  had  been  consumed  by  those  who  handled  the 
measure  in  perfecting  it,''  because  I  really  could  not  tell  what  time 
they  might  get  the  measure  in  hand  and  what  time  they  might  get  it 
back  to  the  House;  but  I  think  in  the  main  that  is  correct. 

^Ir.  Howe.  Did  you  say  anything  to  Mr.  Spottswood  al)out  the 
criticism  that  had  been  made  of  the  Government  Printing  Office  in 
connection  with  the  work  of  the  closing  days  of  Congress? 

Mr.  Platt.  No;  I  can  not  recall  any  more  than  ]Mr.  Spottswood 
;  said  along  in  that  sauje  connection.  I  can  only  repeat  here,  and  I  am 
willing  to  stand  for  that,  and  if  it  coincides  with  what  Mi'.  Spotts- 
wood said,  all  right,  and  if  it  does  not.  all  right,  that  so  far  as  my 
branch  of  the  business  is  concerned  I  have  but  very  little  fault  to  lind 
with  the  way  the  work  has  been  conducted  by  the  Government  Print- 
ing Office,  and  that  my  work  has  never  been  delayed  so  that  it  would 
make  any  difference  to  the  Senate  or  to  myself. 

Once  in  a  while  I  have  telephoned  to  the  Office.  "How  long  ])efore 
that  bill  will  be  up,  Joe,"  and  the  answer  would  be.  ''So  and  so.''  I 
would  say,  •"  Well,  hurry  it  along;  they  are  in  a  great  hurry  to  get 
that  bill  over,"  and  he  would  say.  "We  are  doing  the  yery  ])est  we 
can.''  I  would  say,  "Yes,  I  think  you  are,  but  you  have  got  to  follow 
these  things.  You  are  a  part  of  the  enrolling  force  now,  and  you 
must  follow  these  things.     Hurry  it  up."     But  I  do  not  think  that 


yO  PRI.^fTlNG    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KESOLUTtONS. 

any  delay  has  over  niado  any  difference  with  nn^  work,  at  tlie  Govern- 
ment Printino-  OfHce,  and  I  must  sa}'  that  the  dehi3's  have  been  very 
few  and  far  i)etween.  1  did  niaice  some  sug-o-estions  to  Mr.  Stillings 
about  the  delay  that  occurred,  and  he  took  copious  notes  of  what  1  said, 
and  he  said  he  would  have  the  evils  corrected  and  he  wanted  me  to 
make  sugoestions  to  him,  which  I  did. 

1  told  him  1  thought  the  time  had  come  when  he  ought  to  keep  a 
force  there  during  the  dinner  hour  or  the  lunch  hour;  that  our  work 
coimnenced  here  at  12  o'clock,  and  that  very  often  m  the  first  half 
hour  we  would  have  a  bill  which  was  in  a  great  rush,  and  if  the  Print- 
ing Office  takes  a  luncheon  hour  from  12  to  half  past  12  or  1  o'clock, 
and-  there  is  no])ody  there  there  is  half  an  hour  delay,  and  1  suggested 
that  the  force  be  kept  there,  as  it  had  been  kept  there  in  former 
administr.Ltions,  and  he  said  he  thought  it  would  be  a  good  idea,  and 
that  he  would  do  it.  \^'hether  that  was  done  after  that,  from  that 
time  up  to  the  time  we  adjourned,  J  can  not  say.  I  thought  once  or 
twice  that  possibly  it  had  not  occurred,  but  he  said  he  would  attend  to 
it,  and  that  he  would  see  that  some))ody  was  kept  there  all  the  time. 

Furthermore,  he  said  he  would  keep  a  messenger  here  most  of  the 
time,  but  as  far  as  that  was  concerned  it  was  entirel}^  unnecessary,  I 
told  him,  because  I  could  never  tell  when  I  was  going  to  have  hurried 
work.  I  could  not  tell  until  it  was  necessary  to  have  him,  and  then  I 
could  send  a  messenger  or  telephone  to  the  post-office  for  a  riding- 
page.  It  may  l)e  a  digression,  but  I  might  say  that  we  have  no  mes- 
sengers here  that  we  can  send  to  the  Printing  Office.  When  I  have  a 
hurried  bill  1  have  to  send  down  to  the  post  office  to  see  if  I  can  get  a 
riding  page.  Perhaps  once  out  of  a  dozen  times  I  would  not  be  able 
to  get  one,  and  if  I  could  not  get  one,  then  I  would  have  to  send  one 
of  our  bo3"8  or  men  down  to  the  Printing  Office.  That  consumes  time; 
but  during  the  latter  part  of  the  session  Mr.  Stillings  or  Captain 
Brian,  or  whoever  it  may  be,  had  a  messenger  at  Mr.  Smith's  place, 
over  in  Statuary  Hall,  and  I  found  it  very  convenient  a  number  of 
times  to  call  on  him  and  have  him  come  right  over  and  take  a  bill  down. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  copy  you  send  over  to  the  Printing  Office  is  care- 
fully prepared,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  Platt.  I  think  so. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  it  ever  in  such  shape  that  the  Printing  Office  has  to 
call  upon  you  to  elucidate  it,  and  make  it  plain? 

Mr.  Platt.  I  do  not  recall  one  instance  in  wdiich  any  of  our  copy 
has  been  questioned  at  the  Printing  Office,  except  once  in  a  while  to 
make  a  quer}^  mark  on  the  galley  slip,  and  when,  I  get  it  I  settle  the 
matter  right  there  and  then. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  kind  of  proof  have  you  got  back?  Pretty  satis- 
factory proof? 

Mr.  Platt.  1  get  back  pretty  satisfactory  proof.  Of  course,  there 
are  some  mistakes  in  punctuation  and  one  thing  or  another.  Some- 
times the  printer  y^robably  thinks  a  comma  ought  to  go  in  here  or 
there,  and  he  puts  it  in,  and  we  have  to  ttike  it  out.  However,  that 
is  a  small  matter,  and  is  not  a  vital  question.  As  a  general  thing  the 
proof  we  get  back  is  good.  I  have  had  an  original  bill  come  back  to 
me  which  I  have  corrected,  but  I  think  when  3^ou  take  into  considera- 
tion the  amount  of  work  that  comes  over  here  those  errors  are  very 
few. 


PRINTI^'G    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOH'TIONS.  91 

]Mi-.  IIoAVE.  There  hiis  l)eeii  testimony  to  the  etlect  thiit  the  Priiitinj;- 
Otfice,  on  occasions,  has  iiad  to  telephone,  not  to  your  enrolliiio-  desk, 
but  to  the  House  enrolling  desk,  to  i>et  them  to  make  phiin  some  (Uifects 
in  the  copy,  and  I  asked  some  one  here  whether  he  would  consider  it 
feasil)le  for  the  Public  l*rinter  to  detail  a  copy  preparer  to  serve  the 
two  enrolling-  desks  during  the  rush  time.  Would  that  be  of  any 
assistance  to  you  i 

Mr.  Flatt.  Not  in  the  least.  It  would  l)e  a  detriment  to  the  service. 
I  do  not  want  to  be  egotistical,  l)ut  no  man  can  make  up  my  copy. 

]Mr.  lIowK.  You  can  be  absolved  from  any  charge  of  egotism.  Ijecause 
the  answer  I  got  to  the  question  was  that  you  had  had  a  thorough 
printing  otHce  training,  and  did  not  need  any  advice. 

Mr.  Platt.  Oh.  it  would  be  a  detriment  to  have  any  such  man.  It 
is  not  necessary  at  all.  I  thank  whoever  it  was  for  that  statement, 
but  I  can  tell  you  where  I  think  an  improvement  can  be  made.  There 
are  times  when  the  enrolling  clerk  has  nothing  to  do.  comparatively, 
at  the  conunencement  of  the  session;  l)ut  there  are  other  times,  in  the 
last  month  or  two  of  the  session  of  Congress,  when  he  does  not  get  a 
minute's  time,  and  it  is  just  simjjly  a  jump  from  the  time  he  comc'-^  in 
until  he  goes  away  at  night.  He  is  really  under  a  mental  strain,  I 
think,  all  the  time,  especially  during  the  last  month  or  two  or  three 
weeks  of  the  session,  as  you  can  conceive.  I  think  that — well,  I  do 
not  know  whether  I  should  say  this  or  not,  if  you  are  going  to  have 
Mr.  McKenney  before  you,  or  any  one  from  the  House  side — but  1 
think  Mr.  ^IcKeniiey  ought  to  have  more  assistants.  He  has  one 
assistant  there,  and  Avhen  I  went  over  to  see  about  the  public  buildings 
bill  he  had  a  third  man  there  in  his  othce.  and  they  were  each  one 
looking  at  copy  while  the}-  were  reading  to  Mr.  McKenney;  but  as  a 
general  thing  f  think  he  has  to  depend  upon  himself  and  his  assistant- 
Mr.  Wing,  I  think  it  is. 

I  am  under  the  impression  that  Mr.  McKenney  ought  to  have  at 
least  three  assistants,  and  I  think  one  of  those  assistants  should  be  a 
thoroughgoing  typewriter,  and  a  rapid  one.  As  I  understand  it,  ]Mr. 
McKenney  has  to  write  all  his  amendments  out  pretty  much,  and  I 
think  it  would  be  more  expeditious  to  have  a  typewriter  with  some 
experience.  Then,  at  the  close  of  a  session.  Mr.  McKenney  could 
take  charge  of  his  appropriation  bills,  and  he  could  have  these  other 
two  men  attending  to  the  other  work.  As  I  understand  it-  and  if 
you  do  not  want  this,  why  just  stop  nie 

]Mr.  Howe.  It  is  very  interesting. 

Mr.  Platt.  As  I  understand  it,  Mr.  McKenney  can  not,  at  the  end 
of  a  session,  read  all  his  bills  or  compare  his  bills. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Who  does? 

^Ir.  Platt.   He  could  not  do  it.     It  is  simply  a  human  impossihility. 

Mr.  Howe,   ^^'hodoes^ 

Mr.  Platt.  I  will  come  to  that,  if  you  will  excuse  me.  When  you 
have  four  or  tive  big  appropriation  bills  open  in  the  last  twenty-four 
hours  of  the  session  of  Congress,  and  especially  preceding  the  4th  of 
March,  with  the  other  work,  no  two  men  can  do  that  work:  they  can 
not  do  it,  and  do  it  properly.  It  has  often  been  the  case  that  three 
and  four  and  live  appropriation  1)ills  have  been  open  in  the  last  day 
or  two— and  what  I  mean  by  "'open"  is  that  they  have  not  been  agreed 
to  in  conference. 


\)2  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

jNIr.  Howe.   Do  tho,s(?  conditions  obtain  in  your  otiiee? 

Mr.  Platt.  Not  to  that  extent. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  do  not  ^et  under  that  extreme  pressure? 

Mr.  Platt.  We  do,  as  far  as  our  work  is  concerned,  in  the  passage 
of  hills;  hut  the  hardest  part  of  the  work  comes  on  the  enrolling  clerk 
of  the  House  in  the  last  two  or  three  days,  in  making  up  tliose  big- 
bills.     Now,  what  was  3'our  (piestioni' 

Mr.  Howe.  My  (question  was.  Who  reads  the  bills  over  there? 

^Ir.  Platt.  Well,  I  thiidv — I  may  l)e  mistaken,  but  I  think  not — 
that  the  sundry  civil  bill,  as  1  understand  it,  was  turned  over  to  the 
Conuuittee  on  Enrolled  Bills  to  read,  and  that  Mr.  McKenney  did  not 
compare  that  bill  at  all.  I  am  under  the  impression  that  he  told  me, 
or  somebody  told  me,  that  the  Committee  on  Enrolled  Bills  would 
have  considerable  to  do  if  they  examined  every  bill;  ])ut  1  would  not 
trust  any  conuuittee  on  enrolled  bills  to  examine  my  bills,  and  not 
read  them.  I  would  not  do  it,  especially  where  a  conference  report 
is  involved. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  it  not  the  duty  of  the  Committee  on  Enrolled  Bills 
to  check  Mr.  McKenney 's  work  after  it  goes  out? 

Mr.  Platt.  It  is  their  duty  to  read  all  of  his  bills,  and  then  if  they 
find  any  mistakes  there  they  would  send  it  back  to  Mr.  McKenney, 
and  he  would  take  out  that  sheet  or  sheets,  and  have  them  corrected 
and  returned  to  them.  But,  if  that  is  the  function  of  the  Committee 
on  Enrolled  Bills,  then  I  can  not  conceive  wh}"  Mr.  Mclvenney  could 
be  blamed  for  mistakes;  but  these  mistakes  are  up  to  the  enrolling 
clerk.  The  Committee  on  Enrolled  Bills  would  get  out  of  it.  As  I 
understand,  Mr.  ^IcKenney  did  not  compare  this  sundry  civil  bill — he 
did  not  have  time — but  the  Committee  on  Enrolled  Bills  compared  it. 
Of  course  Mr.  McKenney  had  to  make  up  the  copy  for  that  sundry 
civil  bill,  but  when  it  got  back  on  parchment,  as  I  understand  it,  he 
turned  it  over  to  them  to  read,  i  turn  all  our  bills  over  to  the  Com- 
mittee on  Enrolled  Bills,  but  I  never  give  one  thing  to  them  until  I 
compare  it  myself. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  invarialdy  your  practice? 

Mr.  Platt.  That  is  invariably  my  practice.  There  is  no  exception, 
under  any  condition  or  circumstances. 

Mr.  Howe.  Under  your  statement  of  the  conditions  over  there  Mr. 
McKenney  would  not  be  responsible  for  any  errors  in  the  sundry  civil 
bill? 

Mr.  Platt.  I  think  if  they  put  it  up  to  the  Committee  on  Enrolled 
Bills  to  examine  bills,  if  they  can  consider  that  is  their  function,  that 
he  ought  not  to  be  held  responsible  for  a  mistake  in  a  bill. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  any  bill? 

Mr.  Platt.  Yes,  because  if  thei'e  is  a  higher  authority  than  Mr. 
McKenney,  why  should  he  be  held  responsil)le  for  it? 

Mr.  Howe.  The  presumption  would  be  that  if  he  did  not  do  reason- 
ably accurate  work  they  would  have  some  other  enrolling  clerk. 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  Mr.  McKenney  is  a  good  man  where  he  is,  but  he 
needs  more  assistants.  I  think,  and  especially  at  the  end  of  the  ses- 
sion of  Congress.  We  have  always  turned  over  our  enrolled  bills — 
the  bills  that  are  on  parchment — to  the  Committee  on  Enrolled  Bills. 
After  it  comes  back  to  us  to  read  we  compare  it  with  our  copy,  and 
then  we  send  that  and  the  parchment  copy  up  to  the  Committee  on 
Enrolled  Bills.     They  examijie  it,  and  if  they  find  anything  the  mat- 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  93 

ter  with  the  bill,  anythinu'  that  I  liu\e  overlooked,  thev  would  return 
it  to  me  for  eorrection. 

Mr.  IIowK.    Do  they  do  that  fre([ueMtly  ^ 

Mr.  Platt.  It  is  so  iufreciueiit  that  I  ean  not  t(dl  you  when  it  has  Ikmmi 
done.     I  do  not  believe  I  ever  had  l)ut  one  or  two  returned  to  ni(\ 

Mr.  Howe.  One  or  two  in  twent\^  years? 

Mr.  Platt.  One  or  two  in  twenty  \  ears;  I  think  so.  Something 
has  l)een  said  about  the  (Tovernment  Printino-  Offiee  enrolling'  the  bills. 
The  Government  Printing  Office  does  not  enroll  a  bill.  They  put  it 
in  type  after  we  send  it  to  them.  They  are  not  responsible  for  what 
we  put  in  a  l)ill.  They  do  not  make  up  the  copy  for  bills.  We  make 
it  up.  The  House  enrolling  clerk  and  the  Senate  enrolling  clerk  make 
that  copy  up,  and  they  are  responsible  and  not  the  Government 
Printing  Office. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  Government  Printing  Office,  of  course,  ought  to 
follow  copy '{ 

Mr.  Platt.  Yes> 

^Ir.  Howe.   Unless  they  discover  some  palpable  and  egregious  error. 

Mr.  Platt.  Then  it  is  their  duty  to  query  it  to  the  ones  who  sent 
the  copy  to  them. 

Captain  Brian.  Or  call  up  on  the  telephone. 

Mr.  Platt.  Or  telephone.  If  they  telephone  about  something  to 
me,  and  I  know  it  is  wrong.  I  say  correct  it.  That  has  not  happened 
but  once  or  twice.  When  it  comes  back  to  me,  though,  1  look  at  that 
and  see  whether  it  was  right  or  wrong;  and  as  far  as  our  making  up 
of  copy  is  concerned,  we  have  ver}'  strict  rules  and  regulations  in 
regard  to  the  preparation  of  copy  and  the  work  of  the  printers. 

Mr.  Howe.   Who  drafted  those  rules  and  regulations? 

]Mr.  Platt.  I  think  Captain  Brian  and  myself  did. 

Captain  Brian.   I  decline:  Mr.  Platt  did  it. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Captain  Brian  testihed  the  other  day  that  you  prepared 
them. 

Mr.  Platt.  Well,  I  might  own  up  to  the  soft  impeachment.  I  pre- 
pared them  on  a  train  between  here  and  New  York  once,  and  I  sub- 
mitted them  to  him  for  approval.  He  made  some  very  valuable 
suggestions,  and  between  the  two  of  ns  we  got  them  up.  Senator 
Manderson  was  the  chairman  of  the  Committee  on  Printing  at  the 
time,  and  Senator  Gorman  was  there,  and  the  remark  was  made  to  me 
that  he  might  like  to  go  over  this  himself.  He  said  no,  that  he  didn't 
know  anything  about  the  thing  himself,  that  he  got  the  best  experts 
he  could  and  held  them  responsible.  He  said:  "I  didn't  know  you 
were  a  pi  inter;  I  knew  Captain  Brian  was."  So  we  have  those  rules. 
I  guess  Captain  Brian  possibly  fixed  it  up  in  printed  shape.  I  have 
them  at  my  desk  there,  and  we  are  very  particular  about  alterations. 
I  never  take  liberties  with  a  bill  after  it  has  passed  the  Senate.  1 
never  take  a  liberty  with  a  bill;  never. 

Mr.  Howe.  1  would  like  to  have  a  cop}'  of  those  rules  to  incor- 
porate in  this  record. 

Mr.  Platt,  I  only  have  one.  I  have  the  original  manuscript,  I 
guess,  but  that  would  be  a  dead  give  away,  because  it  is  in  ni}-  hand- 
writing. 

Mr.  Howe.   I  think  that  is  all,  Mr.  Platt.     Thank  you. 

Captain  Brian.   May  I  ask  Mr.  Platt  just  one  question? 

Mr.  Howe.  Certainly. 


94  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLITTIONS. 

Captain  BiMAN.  You  tostitiod  a  few  minutes  ago  that  Mr.  McKenney 
was  rcadiiij^'  eurollod  copy  on  the  public  buildings  1)111,  and  that  he 
found  an  error  in  nearly  every  pat>e.  or  ever}"  other  page. 

Mr.  Platt.  Pardon  me.  1  think  possi))ly  the  expression  might 
have  been  about  every  othei-  page. 

Captain  Brian.  Well,  the  last  page  he  found  an  error  in  was  page 
15.  There  were  20  pages  in  the  bill.  Now,  the  question  I  want  to 
ask  is,  do  you  think  it  would  have  delayed  the  bill  any,  or  rather, 
whether  we  could  not  have  corrected  those  pages  and  gotten  them 
back  here  while  he  was  reading  the  other  5  pages  of  that  l)ill? 

Mr.  Platt.  Do  you  mean  from  the  time  it  left  here  to  come  to  3'ou, 
and  get  back  here  ( 

Cap'ain  Brian.  Yes. 

Mr.  Platt.  Y^ou  ought  not. 

Captain  Brian.  Do  vou  mean  that  it  ought  not  to  have  delayed  the 
bill  ? 

Mr.  Platt.  1  should  not  think  you  could  have  them  back  while  he 
was  reading  five  pages  of  the  bilH 

Captain  Brian.  You  do  not  think  we  could;' 

Mr.  Platt.  I  would  not  say  that  vou  could  not,  because  a^ou  can  do 
wonders. 

Captain  Brian.  I  know,  but  you  must  recollect  that  we  had  been 
receiving  those  pages  as  he  proceeded? 

Mr.  Platt.  Y"es. 

Captain  Brian.  As  he  went  along,  and  the  last  page  he  returned  was 
page  15. 

Mr.  Platt.  The  last  page  he  returned  to  you  w^as  page  15? 

Captain  Brian.  Y^es. 

Mr.  Platt.  That  is  the  highest  number? 

Captain  Brian.  Y^es;  that  Avas  the  highest  number. 

Ml".  Platt.  And  there  were  20  pages  in  the  bill  ? 

Captain  Brian.  There  were  20  pages  in  the  bill,  and  he  had  5 
pages  to  lead  after  he  returned  the  last  page,  and  he  had  been  return- 
ing them  b}^  messenger  as  fast  as  he  read  them. 

Mr.  Platt.  Y'our  question  is,  Do  I  think  it  possible  for  you  to  have 
those  15  pages  back  here  while  he  was  reading  the  other  5  pages? 

Captain  Brian.  Yes. 

Mr.  Platt.  I  think  if  you  did  it  was  remarkably  ciuick  work. 

Captain  Brian.  As  a  matter  of  fact  we  did,  Mr.  Platt. 

Mr.  Howe.  It  was  testified,  Mr.  Platt,  that  the  last  page  went  from 
here  and  was  delivered  back  in  eight  minutes. 

Captain  Brian.  No;  the  last  page  was  in  the  Office  eight  minutes. 

Mr.  Platt.  It  would  be  impossible  to  get  it  down  there  and  back 
in  eight  minutes.     Y^ou  could  not  do  it. 

Captain  Brian.  No;  the  last  page  was  in  the  Office  eight  minutes. 
Is  that  right,  Mr.  Morgan? 

Mr.  Morgan.  Yes.  sir. 

Mr.  Platt.  I  know  the  Printing  Office,  and  I  will  say,  as  Mr. 
Spottsw'ood  said,  that  they  are  very  expeditious  in  their  work,  and  I 
believe  they  try  to  do  their  level  best  with  us,  and  not  only  with  us, 
but  with  all  the  work  the}'  have  to  attend  to,  and  that  there  is  not,  as 
far  as  1  know,  unless  it  was  in  this  case — which,  it  not  being  my  bill, 
1  can  not  say — any  unreasonable  delav  in  the  Government  Printing 
Office.  I  know  of  one  time,  if  you  will  allow  me  to  go  back  a  little, 
several  years  ago,  Ave  had  one  bill,  the  code  of  civil  laAv  for  the  dis- 


PIMNTING    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  95 

trict  of  Alaska.  I  think  that  was  the  ))i*io-est  bill  I  ever  handled.  It 
made  150  paoes  of  ])archinent,  and  I  made  over  3,0o0  chano-es  in  that 
bill. 

Captain  Hrian  was  foreman  of  i)rintino-  at  that  time,  1  think,  and  it 
was  tie  last  day  of  Cong-ress  when  that  bill  was  going  through,  or  the 
night  before;  and  the  next  morning,  1  know,  we  heard  of  one  mistake  in 
that  bill.  The  Attorney -General  sent  for  me  and  wanted  me  to  point 
out  where  the  mistake  was.  I  said,  "There  was  a  mistake  in  it.  but 
we  have  eorreeted  it."  1  had  heard  of  it  a  few  minutes  before.  I 
took  the  sheet  out  and  sent  it  down  to  Captain  Brian,  and  telephoned 
about  the  eorrection,  and  before  that  [snapping  his  fingers]  he  had  the 
sheet  back  with  the  correction  made.  I  showed  the  Attorney-(Ten- 
eral  where  the  correction  was.  and  the  President  signed  the  bill.  1 
simply  relate  that  to  show  that  the  Printing  Otlice  is  remarkably  expe- 
ditious in  their  w'ork.  That  l)ill  made  150  pages,  and  I  have  never 
heard  of  a  mistake  in  that  bill  yet.     We  made  over  3,000  changes  in  it. 

Captain  Brian.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  District  code? 

]Mr.  Piatt.  What  was  it.  a  Senate  bill  or  a  House  bilH  Do  j'ou 
remember? 

Captain  Brian.  A  House  bill.  1  think. 

Mr.  Platt.  We  made  a  great  many  amendments  to  it  on  Sunday 
night  or  Sunday  afternoon.  1  know  Senatoi'  McComas  was  very 
anxious  about  that  bill,  and  he  came  down  to  me  about  it.  ^^'e  had  to 
adjourn  the  next  day.  and  I  had  the  amendments  ready.  The  Print- 
ing Office  expedited  the  work,  and  we  had  the  amendments  over  there, 
and  the  bill  was  put  through  in  good  shape  and  signed. 

Captain  Brian.  A  pretty  large  bill,  was  it  not? 

Mr.  Platt.  Yes;  it  was  a  big  piece  of  work. 

]Mr.  Howe.  How  large  was  it? 

Mr.  Platt.  I  do  not  remember.  I  know  the  civil  code  of  Alskaa 
made  150  pages  of  parchment.  That  would  make  about  350  pages  of 
ordinary  print,  but  I  have  forgotten. 

Mr.  Howe.  We  are  much  obliged  to  you,  Mr.  Platt.  I  think  that 
is  all.  We  will  hear  from  Mr.  Steele,  of  the  Senate  Committee  on 
Public  Buildings  and  Grounds,  to-morrow  morning  at  11  o'clock. 

The  committee  (at  4.30  o'clock,  p.  m.)  adjourned  until  to-morrow, 
Friday,  July  13,  1906,  at  11  o'clock,  a.  m. 


Committee  on  Printing.  United  States  Senate, 

Wa-s/ihifjton,  I).  C.  'hihj  IS,  190G—11  o'clocl'  a.  m. 
Met  pursuant  to  adjournment. 

Present:  ]Mr.  Albert  H.  Howe,  representing  the  Conmiittee  on 
Printing. 

Also,  Captain  Bi'ian,  Mr.  Young.  Mr.  Morgan.  ]\Ir.  John  L.  Steele, 
]\Ir.  W.  A.  Smith,  and  others. 

STATEMENT  OF  JOHN  L.  STEELE,  CLERK  OF  THE  COMMITTEE  ON 
PUBLIC  BUILDINGS  AND  GROUNDS,  UNITED  STATES  SENATE. 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Steele,  vou  are  the  clerk  of  the  Senate  Committee 
on  Pu})lic  Buildings  and  Grounds? 

Mr.  Steele.  Yes, 

Mr.  Howe.  How  long  have  you  been  connected  with  that  com- 
mittee ? 


96  PRINTING    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Stkele.   Simply  since  the  org-iiiiization  of  this  last  Cong-ress. 

iNIr.  Howe.  You  never  had  an3^thing  to  do  with  the  formulation  of 
an  omnibus  puhiic  buildings  bill  before  this  session^ 

j\Ir.  Steele.  Never. 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  you  recall  when  the  pul)lic  l)uilding's  bill  passed  the 
House  and  came  to  the  Senate'  In  other  words,  when  it  reached  the 
hands  of  the  Senate  comujittee^ 

Mr.  Steele.  Well,  it  passed  the  House  on  a  Monda}",  the  Monday 
of  the  last  week.  It  came  over  to  the  Senate  on  Tuesday,  and  the 
comiuittee  met  on  its  regular  day,  Wednesday,  to  take  it  up. 

]Mr.  Howe.  Did  they  complete  the  consideration  of  it  on  that  day  ^ 

Mr.  Steele.  They  completed  the  consideration  of  it  that  nigfht. 

Mr.  Howe.   When  did  they  report  it^ 

Mr.  Steele.  They  reported  the  bill  on  Thursday  to  the  Senate. 

Mr.  Howe.   With  amendments? 

Mr.  Steele.   With  amendments. 

Mr.  Howe.  Many? 

Mr.  Steele.  Roughly,  Kit,  I  should  say,  or  something  of  that  sort. 
The  bill  would  show  it;  Init  I  forget. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is  not  material.  I  simply  wanted  to  find  out 
whether  there  were  few  or  many  amendments. 

Mr  Steele.  There  were  somewhere  over  100. 

Mr.  Howe.  When  was  the  bill  taken  up  in  the  Senate,  as  3^ou  recol- 
lect it? 

Mr.  Steele.   It  was  taken  up  Thursdaj'  afternoon. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  was  the  last  Thursday  of  the  session? 

Mr.  Steele.  That  was  the  last  Thursday  of  the  session. 

Mr.  Howe.   Was  it  passed  that  afternoon? 

Mr.  Steele.  It  was  passed  that  night,  late. 

Mr.  Howe.  Passed  that  night,  late,  and  messaged  over 

Mr.  Steele.  And  sent  over  to  the  House;  but  I  want  to  say  some- 
thing about  that  Thursday  afternoon.  Through  no  fault  of  Senator 
Scott  at  all  it  was  sidetracked  right  along. 

Mr.  Howe.  In  the  Senate? 

Mr.  Steele.  In  the  Senate.  It  was  not  a  privileged  report,  and  all 
privileged  rei)orts  swept  it  out  of  the  way.  Mr.  Tillman  also  made  a 
speech  on  the  Barnes  case  that  afternoon;  and  when  it  was  suggested 
to  him,  as  the  Record  will  show,  that  the  public  buildings  l)ill  was 
before  the  »Senate,  he  said  he  could  simply  speak  to  an  amendment, 
and  that  he  was  going  to  make  his  speech,  and  he  spoke  for  a  couple 
of  houi's,  I  believe,  or  something  of  that  sort. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  delayed  tiie  passage  of  the  bill  in  the  Senate? 

Mr.  Steele.  That  delayed  the  passage  of  the  bill  in  the  Senate,  and 
then  in  the  evening,  at  8  o'clock.  Senator  Hale  called  up  the  confer- 
ence report  on  the  sundry  civil  bill,  which  was  a  privileged  matter, 
and  sidetracked  the  pulilic  buildings  l)ill  until  after  he  got  through 
with  the  sundry  civil  l)ill,  so  that  it  made  it  late  Thursday  night  wdien 
the  public  l)uildings  bill  passed  the  Senate. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Then  it  went  to  the  House? 

Mr.  Steele.  It  went  to  the  House  either  Thursday  night  or  Friday 
morning — Friday  morning  sometime. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  it  was  Friday  morning  that  the  House  disagreed 
to  the  amendments  and  asked  a  confei-ence? 

Mr.  Steele.  It  was  Friday  morning  that  the  House  disagreed  to 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  97 

the  amendments  and  aj>ked  a  conference,  and  tliat  conference  was  to  he 
held  at  '2  o'clock  Friday  afternoon. 

^Ir.  Howe.   Was  it  held  at  2  o'clock  Friday  afternoon  t 

]Mr.  Steele.  The  conference  committee  were  present  at  "2  o'clock 
Friday  afternoon,  and  this  is  the  only  complaint  that  I  know  of  to 
make  against  the  Government  Printing  Olhce.  ^Ve  were  informed 
that  they  had  promised  to  have  the  bill,  witii  the  Senate  amendments 
niunbered,  with  the  House  connnittee  at  2  o'clock. 

]\Ir.  Howe.  Do  you  happen  to  know  when  the  Public  Printer  got 
the  copy  from  which  to  print  i 

Mr.  Steele.  No;  I  do  not  know  a  thing  about  that.  All  I  know  is 
that  we  were  informed  that  they  had  promised  the  bill  at  2  o'clock, 
and  so  the  conference  was  called  for  2  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  We  have  testimony  as  to  when  the  copy  reached  them 
and  when  they  returned  it. 

Mr.  Steele.  They  may  have  been  absolutely  within  their  rights  in 
the  matter,  and  may  have  done  the  very  best  work  possible.  I  do  not 
know  about  that.  I  only  know  that  the  conference  committee  could 
not  go  ahead  with  the  work  at  2  o'clock,  and  had  to  wait  until  3  o'clock 
for  these  bills.  The  Printing  Office  sent  over  to  the  committee  six 
copies- 


Mr.  Wold.  I  brought  four  over. 

Mr.  Steele.  Four  or  five  copies — a  small  number  for  the  confer- 
ence. There  were  not  enough  copies  in  this  first  lot  to  give  the  two 
clerks  each  a  copy  of  the  bill,  and  we  were  informed  that  the  others 
were  on  the  road  and  would  be  over  as  soon  as  they  could  get  them 
there. 

Captain  Brian.  That  was  between  2  and  3  o'clock? 

Mr.  Steele.  It  was  nearer  3  than  2. 

]\lr.  HoAVE.  That  was  Friday  ? 

Mr.  Steele.  That  was  Friday. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  the  conferees  set  to  work? 

Mr.  Steele.  The  conferees  were  in  session  then  up  until  after  10 
o'clock  that  night  and  made  a  partial  report,  which  was  reported  to 
the  Senate  and  reported  to  the  House.  The  Senate  acted  on  its  report 
promptly,  and  the  House  acted  somewhere  before  12  o'clock.  It  was 
nearly  12  o'clock  when  the}^  acted  on  it.  They  were  in  some  parlia- 
mentary tangle  of  some  kind,  so  that  this  bill  could  not  be  presented 
at  once. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then  there  was  still  disagreement  on  some  of  the  items  ? 

Mr.  Steele.  There  was  disagreement  on  from  14  to  20  items,  I 
think. 

ISlr.  Howe.  And  a  second  conference  was  had? 

Mr.  Steele.  A  second  conference  was  held  Saturday  morning  at  lo 
o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  How  long  were  the  conferees  engaged  in  the  consider- 
ation of  those  disputed  items  i 

Mr.  Steele.  It  was  over  within  half  an  hour. 

Mr.  Howe.  Then,  presumably,  the  clerks  of  the  conference  com- 
mittee proceeded  to  prepare  the  copy  for 

[        Mr.  Steele.  For  the  final  report  to  the  House;  and  this  copy,  I 
[     presume,  would  go  to  the  enrolling  clerk,  who  would  send  it  to  the 

I     Public  Printer, 
f- 

7 


98  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    A.ND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  enrolling-  clerk  of  the  Hou.se? 

Mr.  Steele.   Yes;  it  was  u  House  matter  then. 

Mr.  Howe.   When  do  3"0u  say  the  conferees  met  the  second  time? 

INIr.  Steele.  At  10  o'clock  Saturday  morning. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  completed  their  consideration  in  a  half  hour? 

Mr.  Steele.  Within  half  an  hour,  3x8;  roughly  speaking. 

Mr.  Howe.  About  how  long  did  the  conference  report  rest  in  the 
hands  of  the  clerks  of  the  committee? 

Mr.  Steele.  They  were  at  it  two  hours  and  a  half. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  reason  I  ask  is  that  ver}^  shortly  after  the  conven- 
ing of  the  session  on  Saturday  Mr.  Scott  asked  the  Senate  to  have 
patience,  and  stated  "that  as  soon  as  the  report  can  be  written  up  by 
the  clerks  the  conferees  on  the  public  buildings  bill  have  agreed  on  a 
report,  which  will  be  presented."  You  say  it  took  3^ou  two  hours  and 
a  half? 

Mr.  Step^le.  Yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  To  make  that  report? 

Mr.  Steele.  Y"es. 

Mr.  Howe.  Now,  after  you  clerks  got  through  with  it  the  enrolling 
clerk  had  to  prepare  the  copy  for  the  printer,  and  the  matter  had  to 
be  returned  from  the  Printing  Office  before  it  could  be  taken  up  in  the 
House? 

]Mr.  Steele.  No,  I  don't  know.  ]\ly  connection  ends  there,  but  my 
understanding  is  that  the  chairman  of  the  Public  Buildings  Committee 
of  the  House  would  take  that  report  to  the  House. 

Mr,  Howe.  As  3"0u  prepared  it? 

Mr.  Steele.  As  we  prepared  it  and  report  it  to  the  House.  Then 
it  was  to  be  sent  over  to  the  Senate,  and  the  Senate  would  act  on  that 
report,  and  ]  believe  that  after  that  it  comes  to  the  enrolling  clerk.  I 
am  not  sure  as  to  the  custom. 

Mr.  Howe.  Have  you  any  knowledge  of  an3"  delay  that  occurred  in 
the  House  after  the  time  that  the  committee  got  through  with  the 
work  ? 

Mr.  Steele.  No. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  the  time 

Mr.  Steele.  No;  I  know  nothing  about  it.  I  do  not  know  what 
time  the  bill  was  reported  in  the  House.  1  only  know  that  it  came 
over  to  the  Senate  somewhere  in  the  neighborhood  of  2  o'clock — I 
think  somewhere  about  2  o'clock. 

Mr.  Howe.  Well,  that  would  be  three  hours  and  a  half  from  the 
time  the  committee  finished. 

Mr.  vSteele.  Three  hours  and  a  half  from  the  time  the  committee 
linished;  yes. 

Mr.  Howe.  Out  of  which  we  must  deduct  the  two  hours  and  a  half 
that  you  were  engaged  in  the  work? 

Mr.  Steele.  Y^es. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  ))alance  of  the  time,  being  an  hour,  was  consumed 
by  the  enrolling  clerk  and  the  Printing  Office? 

Captain  Brian.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Steele.  No,  the  V)alance  of  the  hour  being  consumed,  as  I 
understand  it,  by  the  House  and  Senate  in  adopting  this  conference 
report;  and,  as  I  understand  it,  the  enrolling  clerk  does  not  appear  in 
this  until  the  linished  action  of  the  House  and  Senate  was  referred  to 


PRINTING    OF    HILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  99 

him.  I  do  not  know;  I  may  1)0  wrono-  on  that,  but  that  is  my  under- 
standing- of  it. 

Captain  Bkian.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Steele.  The  House  having  asked  for  conference,  and  so  forth, 
this  hist  conference  was  in  the  hands  of  the  House  connnittee  entirely. 
So  far  as  I  am  personally  concerned,  the  clerk  of  the  House,  having 
charge  of  that  work,  could  simply  have  held  that  thing  up  until  he  was 
absolutely  ready  to  let  it  come.  I  was  powerless  to  do  anything  more 
than  enter  a  protest.  I  do  not  mean  to  say,  nor  to  intimate,  anything 
of  that  sort,  but  it  was  in  his  hands.  It  was  in  the  hands  of  the  House 
until  the  House  acted,  according  to  the  rules  of  Congress,  and  the 
Senate  could  not  finally  act  on  the  report,  although  Senator  Scott  had 
his  copy  of  the  conference  report  at  1  o'clock,  or  five  minutes  after  1, 
and  so  far  as  he  was  concerned  could  have  reported  the  finding  of  the 
conference;  but  they  had  to  wait  for  the  action  to  come  from  the  House. 

Mr.  Howe.  AVas  there  any  confusion,  so  far  as  3"0u  know,  in  the 
House  as  to  their  rights  to  first  submit  the  second  report? 

Mr.  Steele.  I  do  not  know. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  do  not  know  about  that  I 

Mr.  Steele.  No. 

Mr.  Howe.  So  that  two  hours  and  a  half  that  you  gentlemen  con- 
sumed in  preparing  the  conference  report,  in  your  judgment,  was  a 
very  proper  consumption  of  time? 

Mr.  Steele.  Very,  very.  1  would  like  to  explain,  simph^,  that  in 
that  two  hours  and  a  half  we  were  interrupted  by  Senators  and  Rep- 
resentatives coming  in.  To  illustrate:  Mr.  Tawney,  for  instance — I 
presume  it  is  proper  to  mention  names? 

Mr.  Howe.  Entirely. 

Mr.  Steele.  Mr.  Tawne}'  came  in  about  the  Duluth  item,  if  I 
remember  correctly,  in  the  puljlic  buildings  bill.  There  was  an 
authorization  for  several  hundred  thousand  dollars.  In  the  bill  cariy- 
ing  an  appropriation,  there  is  a  much  smaller  amount,  and  he  came  in 
saying  that  Duluth  had  been  left  out;  that  Duluth  was  only  in  the  bill 
for  a  few  thousand  dollars,  and  it  should  have  Ijcen  for  a  larger  amount. 
This  required  a  stoppage  of  work  until  we  could  go  over  it  and  hunt 
it  up  and  show  him  that  the  authorization  was  for  a  certain  amount, 
and  that  the  appropriation  was  for  another  certain  amount  to  begin 
the  work  of  this  authorization. 

Then  there  was  the  news  that  came  of  the  $3,000,000  item  being  in 
the  public  buildings  bill,  and  some  person  from  one  of  the  Senators 
came  in  and  stopped  the  work  by  telling  us  of  the  circumstances  that 
had  occurred— that  this  i^S.OOO.obo  item  had  been  found  in  the  public 
buildings  bill,  and,  afterwards,  how  it  had  been  traced  to  the  sundry 
civil  bill.  That  all  took  a  little  time.  Finally,  to  be  sure  we  were 
right,  we  made  our  third  and  final  checking  of  the  bill,  this  check 
being  made  with  Senator  Warren,  of  our  connnittee,  Mr.  Bartholdt,  of 
the  House  committee,  and  the  two  clerks.  I  presume  that  half  an 
hour  or  three-quarters  of  an  hour  might  possibl}'  have  been  saved  in 
this  work  of  the  two  clerks  had  we  seen  fit  to  let  our  first  w^ork  go 
through  without  the  checking.  To  be  sure  we  were  right,  and  with- 
out these  interruptions,  over  which  we  have  no  control,  the  work 
would  have  been  completed  sooner. 

Mr.  How  E.  In  other  words,  you  worked  with  all  possible  rapidity 


100  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Steele.  Under  the  circum.stances,  with  all  possible  diligence, 
bearing  in  mind  absolute  correctness. 

j\Ir.  IIowp:.   Consistent  with  exactness? 

Mr.  Steele.  Yes. 

i\Ir.  Howe.   And  in  the  face  of  more  or  less  interruption^ 

Mr.  Steele.   Yes;  that  explains  it. 

Mr.  Howe,  ^^'hat  is  your  opinion,  Mr.  Steele,  about  the  accusation 
of  delay  in  the  handling  of  the  public  buildings  bill?  Do  you  feel 
that 

Mr,  Steele.  It  is  absolutely'  unfounded;  absolutely  unfounded. 
This  bill  was  held  by  the  House  for  several  months,  and  was  sent  oyer 
to  our  committee  within  sixty  or  seventy-two  hours  of  the  closing  of 
the  session.  Senator  Scott  had  had  a  personal  copy  of  the  bill  given 
to  him  in  confidence,  on  which  I  went  to  work  to  prepare  the  data, 
without  which  we  would  simply  have  been  at  sea  when  the  committee 
met. 

Mr.  Howe.   In  other  words,  3'ou  adopted  a  polic}'  of  anticipation  ? 

Mr.  Steele.  Yes;  we  went  to  work  and  lixed  up  a  tabulated  state- 
ment and  had  that  all  ready  for  the  committee  when  the}'  met.  It  was 
arranged  by  States,  so  that  when  the}'  picked  up  the  bill  each  State 
was  before  them,  and  we  knew  the  amount  of  money  that  had  been 
askecl  for  in  various  bills  for  that  State,  and  the  amount  of  money 
appropriated  by  the  House,  and  the  action  of  the  Senate,  the  popula- 
tion of  the  town,  and  the  postal  receipts.  All  this  information  was 
before  the  committee,  so  that  when  they  took  up  the  bill  they  could 
act  with  some  degree  of  celerity.  Otherwise  we  would  have  been  up 
in  the  air,  and  I  do  not  know  when  we  would  have  gotten  through. 

Senator  Scott  kept  the  committee  in  session  all  that  day  (Wednes- 
day) by  inviting  the  members  of  the  committee  to  lunch  with  him  in 
his  room.  They  did  not  even  go  to  dimier  downtown,  but  stopped 
for  half  an  hour  for  lunch  in  his  back  room,  and  then  went  right  at  it 
again.  The  committee  completed  its  work  about,  1  should  say,  half 
past  10  or  11  o'clock  on  that  Wednesday  evening,  and  with  my  mes- 
senger I  sat  over  there  and  worked  on  the  bill.  I  think  it  got  over  to 
the  Government  Printing  OfHce  sometime  after  1  o'clock  the  next 
morning.  That  is  the  bill  that  was  to  be  reported  to  the  Senate  the 
next  day. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  sent  it  over,  yourself? 

Mr.  Steele.  Yes;  about  a  little  after  1  o'clock,  with  "must" 
instructions  on  it,  and  the  "must"  instructions  were  absolutely  fol- 
lowed in  this  case.  The  bill  was  over  here  next  morning  promptly 
on  time,  so  that  we  could  get  hold  of  it  and  go  to  work  on  it  in  the 
Senate  (Chamber. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  that  the  only  instance  in  which  you  individually  had 
any  direct  dealings  with  the  Printing  Office? 

Mr.  Steele.  No;  I  had  some  direct  dealings  with  the  Printing 
Office  ou  this  tabulated  work  that  I  was  getting  up. 

Mr.  Howe.  How  did  the  Printing  Office 

Mr.  Steele.  Well,  I  swore  at  them  ou  Monday.  This  was  sent 
over  on  Saturday  and  instructions  were  given  to  have  the  proof  over 
Sunday  morning.  The  proof  was  over  Sunday  morning,  and  I  sent  it 
back  Sunday  evening,  supposing  that  the  Printing  Office  was  working 
that  Sunday  night  on  this  and  that  we  would  have  it  back  on  Monday. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  101 

j\fr.  Turner,  the  clerk  up  here,  told  me  afterwards  that  they  were  not 
workino-  on  Sunday  nioht:  hut  he  called  over  there  and  they  said  they 
would  have  the  bill  over  at  10  or  11  o'clock,  or  some  early  time — not 
the  t)ill.  but  this  tabulated  work — and  it  did  not  come  over  until  hite 
in  the  afternoon — 2  or  3  o'clock  in  the  afternoon.  Hut  that  work  did 
not  in  any  way  affect  the  end  of  the  session  work. 

[      ]Mr.  Howe.  I  understand. 

Mr.  Steele.  It  was  just  simply  a  delay 

i      Mr.  Howe.  It  was  not  bill  work  i 

Mr.  Steele.  No;  it  was  not  bill  work.  It  was  simply  preparatory 
memorandum  work — preparatory  work.  I  presume,  just  as  it  is  in 
the  Senate,  a  conference  report  or  anything-  else  would  be  privileged 
over  that,  and  would  go  ahead  of  it.  and  it  would  have  to  take  its 
turn.  But  I  wanted  that  matter  back  here  on  Monday  morning  so 
that  if  we  had  it  Monday  morning  and  got  everything  all  right,  that 
the  committee  might  perhaps  meet  on  Tuesday.  It  did  not  g-et  back 
until  Monday  afternoon.  I  do  not  want  to  say,  now,  that  the  commit- 
tee would  have  met  on  Tuesdav,  had  this  matter  come  over,  because 
there  were  other  conference  reports  on.  and  Senator  Warren  and 
other  members  of  the  committee  were  on  these  conferences  and  had  to 
be  absent  on  Tuesdav:  so  that  Wednesday  was  the  first  day  we  could 
meet. 

[      Mr.  Howe.  When  you  absolutely  submitted  the  l)ill,  however 

f      Mr.  Steele.  That  bill  came  V)ack  promptlv  the  next  morning. 

^Ir.  HoAVE.  Did  your  committee  have  anything-  to  do  with  the  han- 
dling of  the  supplemental  deticiency  bill? 

[       Mr.  Steele.  Nothing,  except  that  Mr.  Cleaves  and  Mr.  Courts  fol- 

!  lowed  on  their  bills  the  checking  that  we  made  of  our  bill  at  the  same 
time.  They  were  present  and  followed  on  their  bill  the  checking  that 
Senator  Warren  and  Doctor  Bartholdt  and  the  two  clerks  made  on  the 
public  buildings  bill. 

J  Mr.  Howe.  Did  the  necessity  of  passing  that  supplemental  bill  con- 
tribute to  the  delav  in  the  adjournment  of  Congress,  as  you  under- 
stand it? 

Mr.  Steele.  AVell,  1  would  not  like  to  say.  because  I  do  not  know. 
I  would  like  to  srj,  too,  that  while  this  conference  was  in  session,  on 
Friday  afternoon,  two  members  of  the  conference  committee  had  to 

\  leave  to  go  to  the  Senate  to  be  present  when  the  report  of  the  meat 
bill  was  up.  Senator  Warren  and  Senator  Culberson,  Senator  Warren 
being  one  of  the  conferees.  That  added  to  the  delay  of  the  conference 
committee.  They  were  absent  perhaps  an  hour,  and  perhaps  longer. 
Mr.  Howe.  Well,  realh'  the  prime  fact  1  wanted  to  get  out  was  as 
to  whether  there  was  any  undue  delay  between  the  moment  the  con- 
ferees finally  agreed  on  the  public  buildings  bill  and  the  moment  the 
report  was  submitted  in  the  House. 

Mr.  Steele.  There  was  no  delay,  in  my  opinion,  after  the  conferees 

■  agreed  on  the  bill  until  the  conference  report  was  ready  for  presenta- 
tion. 

^     Mr.  Howe.  There  was  delay  after  that,  you  think? 

Mr.  Steele.  I  do  not  know  whether  there  was  or  not.  Whether 
Doctor  Bartholdt  should  have  presented  that  conference  report  at  ten 
minutes  past  1,  or  twenty  minutes  past  1.  or  half  past  1.  instead  of  at 
the  hour  he  did  present  it,  I  do  not  know.     There  may  have  been  a 


102  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

privileged  (juestion  l)efore  the  House  so  that  Doctor  Bartholdt  could 
not  get  the  iioor  until  that  (juestion  was  disposed  of.  Then  this  mistake 
that  had  occurred  in  the  sundry  civil  hill  was  causing  more  or  less 

Mr.  Howe.  Consternation^ 

]Mr.  Stkele.  Confusion  and  consternation.  The  Speaker,  for 
instance,  sent  for  Mr.  Bartholdt  just  after  we  had  checked  up.  How 
long  the  Speaker  kept  Mr.  Bartholdt  I  do  not  know.  There  is  only 
one  statement,  and  I  do  not  know  whethei*  I  should  make  this  state- 
ment or  not.  If  you  will  let  the  stenographer  wait  for  a  second  until 
I  have 

Mr.  Howe.  Let  me  say  this,  that  the  Committee  on  Printing  has 
been  directed  to  make  incjuiry  into  the  alleged  cause  of  delay,  and  any 
information  j^ou  may  have,  of  course,  would  be  very  acceptable  and 
very  proper. 

Mr.  Steele.  This  is  not  exactly  information,  and  1  can  make  the 
statement  afterwards,  if  3'ou  think  it  would  help  matters  any.  I  do 
not  think  that  anything  that  possibly  could  have  been  done  on  the 
public  buildings  bill  could  have  saved  more  than  two  hours;  and  the 
onl}^  thing  that  could  have  saved  that  would  have  been  for  the  con- 
ferees to  have  met  after  12  o'clock  on  Friday  night,  to  agree  to  their 
conference  report  before  they  went  to  bed. 

Mr.  Howe.  There  is  a  limit  to  human  endurance. 

]Mr.  Steele.  The  Senators  simpl}-  said  that  they  were  knocked  out — 
tired.  They  had  been  up  virtually  the  night  before  until  a  very  late 
hour  passing  the  bill,  and  the  night  before  that  they  had  been  in  com- 
mittee until  11  or  12  o'clock,  and  the}"  were  all  tired  and  could  not  get 
to  sleep.  If  the  conference  report  had  been  adopted  that  night  it 
could  not  have  been  presented  in  the  House  until  11  o'clock,  because 
the  House  adjourned  until  11.  There  might  have  been  the  possil)ility 
of  saving  the  two  hours  between  11  and  1  o'clock,  and  that  would 
have  cut  off  two  hours,  from  10  to  8  in  the  evening,  ))ut  that  is  the 
only  thing  that  possibly  could  have  been  saved  in  time  on  this  pub- 
lic buildings  bill.  As  you  remarked,  there  is  a-  liiuit  to  human 
endurance. 

Mr.  Howe.  Senators  and  Members  can  retire  when  clerks  and 
printers  can  not. 

Mr.  Steele.  Precisely;  and  they  did  not  care  to  go  on  that  night, 
because  they  were  tired  out,  and  they  were,  too.  They  had  had  an 
awful  time  of  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  The  committee  is  vevy  much  obliged  to  you,  Mr.  Steele. 

Captain  Brian.  May  I  ask  Mr.  Steele  one  cjuestion  about  that  Sunday 
job  ? 

JNlr.  Howe.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Steele.  Yes. 

Captain  Brian.    VA^as  that  proof  returned  to  the  Office  on  Sunday"?  ; 

Mr.  Steele.  Sunda}^  evening.  Sunday  afternoon  it  was  taken  over 
and  given  by  my  messenger  to  the  watchman.  I  called  up  first  and  had 
a  good  deal  of  trouble  l)efore  I  could  even  get  anybod3\  At  last  central 
gave  me  the  captain  of  the  watch,  and  the  captain  of  the  watch  said 
some  of  the  printers  were  at  work,  and  I  sent  it  over  to  the  captain  of 
the  watch  with  instructions  written  on  the  outside. 

Captain  Brian.  Had  the  Office  been  notitied  that  it  would  be 
returned  ^ 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND   JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  103 

]Mr.  Steele,  I  do  not  know  alxnit  that,  sir.  I  had  seen  Mr.  Turner 
the  day  before.  Saturday,  and  told  him  this  was  yoing  over,  and  that  I 
wanted  a  proof  of  it  so  that  I  couUl  <i;o  over  the  proof  on  Sundjiy,  and 
1  naturally  thoujrht  the  proof  would  be  returned  Sunday,  and  that  of 
course  I  would  oet  the  matter  l)aek  to  *>o  over  it  Monday  morning. 
Mr.  Turner  told  me  afterwards  that  if  the  matter  had  been  made  up 
without  a  readino-  of  the  proof  by  me  it  would  have  been  finished 
Sunday  mornino-  and  sent  over  completed  Monday,  but  that  the  read- 
ing of  the  proof  on  Sunday,  and  the  force  not  working,  as  I  under- 
stood  it,  made  this  delay. 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  the  point  1  want  to  get  out,  that  it  is  under- 
stood the  force  of  the  Office  does  not  work  on  Sunda\\ 

^Ir.  Steele.  I  did  not  understand  that  on  Saturday'  when  I  spoke 
to  Mr.  Turner. 

Captain  Brian.  Unless  they  have  previous  notice  they  do  not  wofk. 

Mr.  Steele.  I  did  not  understand  that  when  1  went  to  Mr.  Turner. 
If  1  had..  I  would  have  asked  that  previous  notice  be  given,  so  that 
this  proof  could  have  been  read  over  and  the  corrections  made  so  the 
matter  could  be  over  ^londay  morning  at  the  committee. 

Captain  Brian.  In  that  case  you  would  have  received  the  printed 
matter  back  on  Monday  morning. 

^Ir.  Howe.  It  occurs  to  me  to  suggest  that  instead  of  swearing  at 
the  Printing  Office  you  should  have  sworn  at  Mr.  Turner. 

Mr.  Steele.  Well,  I  don't  know.  It  was  simply  provoking  to  have 
to  wait  all  that  time  on  Monday.  I  reallv  think  that  perhaps  I  was  a 
little  to  blame  myself  for  not  indicating  on  Saturday  evening  that  I 
wanted  it,  but  it  never  entered  my  head.  When  printing  matter  went 
over,  with  the  proof  to  be  read  Sunday  morning,  it  never  entered  my 
head  that  there  would  be  any  question  but  that  it  would  go  back  at 
once,  as  soon  as  it  was  read,  because  otherwise  it  would  have  to  wait 
until  Monday  morning. 

Captain  Brian.  But  there  was  nothing  to  show  whether  you  were 
going  to  complete  the  proof  on  Sunday  or  Monday. 

Mr.  Steele.  I  understand. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  may  remember.  Captain  Brian,  that  yesterday  Mr. 
Piatt  testified  that  he  received  the  proof  of  the  general  deficiency  bill, 
I  think  it  was,  at  a  time  somewhat  after  9  o'clock  on  the  morning  of 
Friday.  I  notice  that  your  Office  has  testified  to  having  sent  that  proof 
to  ]Mr.  Piatt  at  half-past  8,  and  I  would  like  to  clear  that  discrepancy 
up.  if  possilile. 

Captain  Brian.  My  recollection  is  that  Mr.  Piatt  also  testified  the 
Office  informed  him  that  the  proof  had  been  sent. 

Mr.  Howe.   What  do  you  mean  ?     I  do  not  quite  understand  you. 

Captain  Brian.  That  the  Office  had  notified  Mr.  Piatt  over  tlie  tele- 
phone that  the  proof  had  left  our  Office. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  At  half -past  8 :' 

Captain  Brian.  At  half-past  8,  or  about  that  time.  When  Mr.  Piatt 
asked  for  it  he  was  told  that  the  proof  had  been  sent. 

Mr.  Howe.  ]Mr.  Piatt  remarked,  I  believe,  that  he  questioned  the 
messenger  when  he  made  delivery  of  the  proof  as  to  why  it  had  taken 
him  so  long,  and  the  messenger  said  he- had  to  go  to  the  House. 

Captain  Brian.  Yes;  ^Ir.  Piatt  was  aware  that  the  messenger  had 
left  our  Office  in  time  to  be  there  long  before,  and  when  the  messenger 


104  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

did  arrive  he  asked  him  whei'e  he  had  been  and  what  had  delayed  him 
so  loiio-;  and  he  said  that  he  luid  taken  some  matter  over  to  the  House 
instead  of  oomiiio-  to  ^Ir.  Phitt  first. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  You  have  pronounced  some  h\^\\  encomiums  upon  the 
messeno"er  force  of  your  Ofiice,  and  I  woukl  like  to  ascertain  just  why 
it  took  the  messenger  so  long  to  make  the  deliver}-  in  this  instance. 

Mr,  Steele.  INIav  I  say  something  right  here  i 

Mr.  Howe.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Steele.  1  want  to  say  that  this  proof  that  was  sent  back  on 
Sunday  to  us  was  brought  here  early  Sunday  morning,  but  did  not 
reach  us  until  11  or  12  o'clock  because  it  had  been  taken  and  left  over 
with  the  House  people,  the  House  Public  Buildings  and  Grounds  Com- 
mittee. I  could  not  get  the  Pi-inting  Office  in  any  way.  and  called  up 
Mr.  Turner  at  his  private  residence,  and  1  w^as  just  getting  ready  then 
to  try  and  hunt  up  this  copy  and  try  to  get  in  touch  with  it,  when  Mr. 
TNliller  of  the  House  connnittee  sent  the  stuti'  over  and  said  it  had  been 
'.eft  there  in  the  morning  by  the  messenger. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  is,  it  was  misdelivered? 

Mr.  Steele.  It  was  a  misdelivery  on  the  part  of  the  messenger  on 
that  Sunday  morning. 

Mr.  Howe.  1  wonder  if  it  was  a  misdelivery  by  the  messenger  or  a 
misdirection  on  the  part  of  the  Printing  Office? 

Mr.  Steele.  I  do  not  know  about  that. 

Mr.  Howe.  You  do  not  recall  how  the  matter  vras  directed^ 

Mr.  Steele.  No. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  your  messenger  here,  Captain  Brian? 

Captain  Brian.  We  have  the  messenger,  the  one  we  suppose  deliv- 
ered it.  He  said  he  never  had  any  such  conversation  with  Mr.  Piatt, 
and  that  he  always  goes  to  Mr.  Piatt  tii-st. 

Mr.  Howe.  Is  there  an}-  explanation  available  as  to  the  cause  of  the 
dela}^  in  making  delivery  of  this  proof? 

Captain  Brian.  The  only  reason  for  the  delay  is  what  ]VIr.  Piatt 
gave,  that  the  messenger  had  several  packages,  and  that  he  went  to 
other  places.     • 

]Mr.  How'E.  The  Capitol  is  a  large  building,  and  it  takes  some  time 
to-walk  from  one  end  of  it  to  the  other. 

Captain  Brian.  That  is  right.  A^^e  claim  that  even  at  tiie  time  Mr. 
Piatt  got  that,  he  got  his  proof  back  and  the  cop}-  over  to  the  House 
in  plenty  of  time — about  the  time  the  House  met. 

Mr.  Howe.   Yes;  this  inquiry  is  just  incidental. 

]VIr.  Young.  You  know  the  messenger  who  brought  that  up  is  what 
we  call  a  wagon  messenger,  and  not  a  bicj-cle  messenger.  A  bicvcle 
messenger  could  handle  the  stuti'  and  get  up  here  inside  of  six  or  seven 
or  eight  minutes;  but  in  the  case  of  the  wagon,  you  have  got  to  take 
the  package  down  to  the  wagon,  put  it  in  the  wagon,  and  get  it  started, 
and  I  guess  it  would  take  fifteen  minutes  before  the  wagon  would  get 
up  here. 

Mr.  How-E.  If  this  was  a  wagon  delivery,  it  is  presumable  that  he 
had  a  good  many  deliveries? 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.   Yes,  four  or  five  of  them:  which  he  has  eveiy  morning. 

Mr.  How-E.  I  think  probably  that  accounts  for  the  delav,  if  there 
was  any. 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.  That  is  done  everv  morning. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  105 

Mr.  Ho^VK.  You  make  it  a  i)rai'tico.  do  you,  to  make  your  early 
morning-  deliveries  b}"  waoon  rather  than  hy  I)ic3ele  nie.ssenfrer^ 

Mr.  Young.  They  are  generally  lai-ger  bundles  that  are  taken  up, 
and  if  there  is  one  that  is  to  come  here  he  takes  up  everything  that 
goes. 

Mr.  Howe.  That  probably  accounts  for  it. 

Captain  Huian.  I  want  to  call  attention  to  this  public  buildings  bill, 
about  which  the  gentleman  just  testified.  The  conferees  met  at  10 
o'clock  and  occupied  about  80  minutes,  and  the  clerks  were  then 
engaged  in  preparing  the  work  for  two  hours  and  a  half,  which  would 
bring  the  time  up  to  1  o'clock  before  it  possibly  could  have  been  pre- 
sented in  either  House. 

Mr.  Howe.  Y"es;  I  understand  that. 

Captain  Brian.  But  the  Senate  had  been  expecting  it  all  the  morn- 
ing, and  had  been  getting  impatient  al)Out  it,  as  the  Record  shows; 
and  after  that  time  the}"  kept  on  getting  impatient. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  William  Douglass  entered  the  room.) 

Mr.  Y'ouNG.  Mr.  Howe,  this  is  the  bicycle  messenger,  Mr,  Doug- 
lass, who  was  transferred,  or,  rather,  resigned,  from  the  Oftice,  as  I 
told  3'ou.  If  you  have  any  questions  to  ask  him,  he  is  perfectly  willing 
to  testify. 

Mr.  Howe.  What  connection  did  he  have  w'ith  these  deliveries  in 
question  ( 

Mr.  Young.  He  is  the  one  who  was  up  here  in  the  morning  and 
looked  up  the  messenger  who  drove  the  wagon.  I  think  you  are  the 
one.  are  you  not,  who  came  up  to  look  up  the  messenger  who  had  the 
package  for  Mr.  Piatt? 

Mr.  Douglass.  Y'es,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  ]Mr.  Piatt  had  telephoned  over  expressing  anxiety 
about  it  i 

Mr.  Y^ouNG.  Yes;  that  is  the  same  thing  we  were  talking  about  a 
minute  ago. 

Mr.  Howe.  Y'es;  but  Mr.  Douglass  did  not  have  the  delivery  of  the 
package  himself? 

Mr.  Douglass.  Well,  there  was  one  package  that  1  took  from  the 
messenger  and  took  over  to  Mr.  Piatt,  and  if  that  is  the  one  3"ou  are 
referring  to,  I  met  the  messenger  coming  up  the  steps  and  took  the 
package  from  him  and  gave  it  to  Mr.  Piatt. 

Mr.  Howe.  Did  the  wagon  messenger  have  quite  a  number  of  deliv- 
eries to  make  ? 

Mr.  Douglass.  He  had  a  big  bundle  of  stufi*. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  your  coming  over  was  to  accomplish  an  earl}" 
delivery  of  this  particular  package  to  Mr.  Piatt? 

Mr.  Douglass.  Yes. 

Mr.  HoAVE.  Do  you  remember  just  when  you  made  the  delivery  to 
Mr.  Piatt,  or  approximately  when  you  made  it^ 

Mr.  Douglass.  No,  I  can  not  say.  It  was  early  in  the  morning, 
though. 

Mr.  Howe.  To  refresh  your  memory,  Mr.  Piatt  testifies  that  deliv- 
ery was  made  to  him  about  half  past  9  in  the  morning.  Does  that 
accord  with  your  recollection? 

Mr.  Douglass.  1  should  think  it  would  be  somewhere  along  about 
that  time. 


10(i  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

Mr.  Howe.  But  vou  say,  Captain  Brian,  that  the  proof  left  j'our 
Office  about  8.30^ 

Captain  Brian.  S.30;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Mr.  Young-,  how  many  l)ieycle  messengers  have  you  on 
your  staff  there!' 

Mr.  Young.  Four,  with  two  extras  that  can  be  called  on  at  an\' 
time. 

Mr.  Howe.  But  it  does  not  always  follow  that  you  have  a  messen- 
ger accessible  at  a  moment's  notice? 

Mr.  Young.  No,  sir;  and  it  very  often  happens  that  we  have  no 
messenger  there  whatever.  Our  calls  are  so  swift  and  furious  that 
we  have  to  scurry  aromid  to  tind  someone  else  to  take  a  package. 

Mr.  Howe.  And  he  would  have  to  walk,  I  suppose,  or  ride? 

]Mr.  Young.  We  generally  manage  to  get  him  away  in  some  way  in 
a  hurry.  The  case  has  got  to  be  met  as  it  comes.  It  does  not  happen 
very  often,  but  when  it  does  come  we  have  just  got  to  make  the  best 
provision  we  can. 

Captain  Brian.  Does  it  occur,  Mr.  Young,  that  these  messengers 
are  all  at  the  Capitol  at  the  same  time,  or  most  of  them  ? 

Mr.  Young.  Most  of  them;  yes,  sir.  It  happens  that  way  ver}^ 
often,  and  between  those  who  are  here  waiting  for  something,  and 
those  who  are  being  sent  up  with  something  that  has  been  telephoned 
for,  and  those  who  are  on  the  way  with  something  that  legitimately 
comes  here  through  the  regular  routine  of  business,  it  very  often  hap- 
pens that  there  is  no  one  there.  I  have  had  it  occur  that  the  Public 
Printer  would  send  down  and  ask  me  to  let  him  have  a  messenger, 
and  it  would  happen  that  we  w^ould  probably  have  to  wait  a  few  min- 
utes, because  our  messengers  were  all  employed  on  hurried  work. 

Mr.  Howe.  Has  it  been  your  experience  that  your  messengers,  who 
are  sent  up  here  on  call  to  serve  Congress,  are  detained  here  fre- 
quently? 

Mr.  Young.  Well,  it  happens  sometimes;  yes,  sir.  I  think  Mr. 
Smith  €an  testify  as  to  that  point  better  than  I  can. 

Mr.  Howe,  They  report  to  you,  do  they  not,  Mr.  Smith  ? 

]Mr.  W.  A.  Smith.  Sometimes  they  do.  Mr.  Douglass,  here,  made 
my  desk  his  headquarters,  and  Mr.  Piatt  frequently  telephoned  and 
so  did  Mr.  Turner  to  send  a  messenger  over.  He  would  wait  there 
for  orders,  and  he  would  go  to  Mr.  McKenney's  every  few  minutes 
when  Mr.  McKenney  would  have  something  that  he  wanted  to  send 
down.  About  the  Capitol  here  they  always  depended  on  our  mes- 
senger service  for  getting  their  work  down.  It  seems  to  me  that  they 
should  have  messengers  of  their  own. 

Mr.  Young.  That  is  a  fact. 

Mr.  Smith.  They  not  only  call  on  our  messengers  to  carry  down 
hurried  bills  and  reports  and  things  of  that  kind,  luit  Mr.  Turner  calls 
on  our  wagon  messenger  to  come  there  and  carry  down  his  landing  to 
the  Printing  Office.  Our  people  are  always  busy,  and  it  takes  a  little 
time;  ))ut  that  is  set  aside  until  we  get  time  to  do  it. 

Mr.  Howe.  Does  not  the  House  post-office  have  bicycle  messengers, 
like  the  Senate  post-office? 

Mr.  Smith.  No,  sir;  the  Doorkeeper  of  the  House  has  a  bicycle 
messenger,  I  think. 

Captain  Brian.  Mr.  Young,  is  it  not  a  fact  that  our  messengers 
have  to  do  messenger  work  for  both  ends? 


PRINTING    OV    BII/LS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  107 

Mr.  Young.  Al)solutoly.  All  of  the  Coiiorejisioiuil  work  is  luiiidlod 
b}'  our  messengers. 

Captain  Hhiax.  When  they  have  a  packag'e  to  send  down,  instead 
of  sending  it  l\y  their  messenger,  they  send  for  our  messenger  to  get  it 
and  take  it  down. 

Mr.  Young.  I  can  illustrate  that  by  citing  one  case  where  Mr. 
Shuey  asked  me  how  long  it  would  take  to  give  him  the  return  proof 
on  IT  lines  of  insert  in  a  certain  speech.  1  told  him  1  could  do  it 
inside  of  half  an  hour.  Then  he  said,  "Will  you  please  send  me  a 
messenger r'  1  said,  ''Now,  ]\]r.  Shuey,  I  will  have  to  go  back  on 
what  I  have  said.  If  I  have  to  send  a  messenger  to  3'ou  and  have  the 
messenger  come  back  here,  there  is  too  much  time  consumed,  and  1 
would  sooner  not  make  the  promise  of  half  an  hour,  but  I  will  let  you 
have  it  as  soon  as  I  possibly  can."  That  was  one  of  the  cases  where  1 
could  make  a  promise  on  the  actual  time  that  would  be  consumed  from 
the  time  I  I'eceived  the  cop}',  V)ut  I  caught  myself,  and  I  saw  that  there 
might  be  a  point  raised  on  "my  promise,  on  account  of  the  time  that 
was  consumed  by  the  messenger  service, 

Mr.  Howe.  Are  your  messengers  engaged  on  department  work  as 
well  as  Congressional  work? 

Mr.  Young.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Howe.  Do  the  Departments  avail  themselves  of  the  services  of 
your  messengers!'     Do  they  call  upon  you  occasionally  for  them? 

jNIr.  Young.  The}'  ask  for  the  service,  and  if  we  can  accommodate 
them  we  do.  If  not,  we  tell  them  there  is  no  messenger  available  at 
the  time,  and  they  look  up  someone  else;  but  the  Office  generally  tries 
to  facilitate  the  work  that  is  in  a  hurry  as  nuich  as  possible,  always 
bearing  in  mind  that  Congressional  work  takes  precedence  over  any 
department  work. 

Mr.  Howe.  1  have  been  given  to  understand  that  Mr.  Parkinson, 
the  reading  clerk  of  the  Senate,  could  throw  some  light  on  the  delay, 
if  any,  which  occurred  between  the  time  that  the  conferees  on  the 
public  buildings  bill  completed  their  labors  and  the  time  that  the  con- 
ference report  was  submitted  to  the  House,  regarding  which  I  have 
been  trying  to  elicit  testimony.  I  will  write  Mr.  Parkinson  and  see 
if  he  can  clear  up  the  situation. 

I  see  that  we  have  no  other  testimony  available  except  such  as  may 
be  secured  by  correspondence  already  had  or  hereafter  to  be  had. 
We  will  therefore  adjourn. 

The  committee  (at  12.16  o'clock  p.  m.)  adjourned. 


Washington,  D.  C,  Julij  7,  1906. 
Mr,  Albert  H.  Howe, 

Chief  Clerk  Committee  on  Printing., 

United  States  Senate,  Washington,  D.  C. 
Sir:  Mr.  Charles  A.  Stillings,  Public  Printer,  requests  of  me,  his 
attending  physician,  permission  to  appear  l)efore  your  conunittce  at 
the  Goverimient  Printing  Office,  on  ^londay,  for  two  hours,  that  he 
can  testify  before  you. 
1  regret  that  the  permission  can  not  be  safely  granted. 


108  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

The  putiont'.s  left  foot  is  yet  greatly  swollen,  the  iliac  veins  are 
intlaiinHl,  and  some  of  the  abdoniinal  veins  are  involved.  His  heart  is 
growing  much  stronger  and  the  nerve  centers  are  calmer. 

If  Mr.  Sti Mings  had  been  obedient  to  his  physician's  advice  and  had 
not  latel}'  returned  to  dut}',  against  orders,  he  would  now  be  in. better 
condition. 

If  the  patient  is  kept  quiet  for  another  ten  days,  positive  assurance 
can  be  given  of  complete  restoration  to  health,  and  by  the  tirst  of 
August  he  will  be  wholly  safe. 

I  have  the  honor  to  be,  very  respectfully, 

RuFUS  Choate,  M.  D. 

United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  49  Broadway,  New"  York  City, 

July  9,  1906. 
Mr.  C.  R.  McKenney, 

North  St.  Paul.,  31  inn. 

My  Dear  Sir:  As  you  doubtless  are  aware,  the  Senate  Committee 
on  Printing,  by  a  resolution  of  the  Senate  dated  June  3U,  19<)«j,  is 
directed  to  inquire  into  the  reasons  for  the  delay  in  the  Government 
Printing  Office  in  sending  to  the  Senate,  especially  in  the  last  days  of 
the  session,  printed  copies  of  bills  and  joint  resolutions  pending  and 
awaiting  action  on  the  part  of  Congress.  Acting  under  instructions 
from  the  Committee  on  Printing  I  am  in  this  city  conducting  an 
investigation  into  the  alleged  delays  at  the  Government  Printing  Office. 

During  the  progress  of  the  hearings  that  have  been  held  statements 
alleged  to  have  been  made  by  you.  tending  to  exonerate  the  Printing 
Office  from  blame,  appear  in  the  testimony  of  some  of  the  Printing 
Office  officials.  I  write  to  ask  whether  you  will  favor  this  committee 
with  a  first-hand  expression  on  the  subject,  in  order  that  the  informa- 
tion available  for  the  use  of  the  connnittee  in  formulating  its  report 
may  be  as  nearly  accurate  as  possible.  An  expression  of  your  general 
experience  in  dealing  with  the  Printing  Office  in  the  matter  of  getting 
quick  returns  would  be  of  interest;  also  some  specific  information 
touching  upon  the  following  points  would  be  useful: 

First,  the  public  buildings  bill;  the  information  before  me  would 
appear  to  show  that  this  bill  passed  the  Senate,  with  amendments,  on 
the  night  of  Thursday,  June  2S;  the  amendments  engrossed  and  the 
bill  wnth  amendments  messaged  to  the  House  on  the  morning  of  Friday, 
June  29,  between  11  and  12  o'clock.  It  is  desired  to  know  just  when 
this  bill  reached  the  enrolling  room  of  the  House,  after  the  two  con- 
ference reports  had  been  agreed  to,  the  hour  cop}^  was  prepared  and 
sent  to  the  Printing  Office,  and  the  hour  of  the  return  of  proof  to  3'ou. 

Second.  The  general  deficiency  bill  appears  to  have  passed  the 
Senate,  with  amendments.  a))out  10  o'clock  on  the  night  of  Thursday, 
June  28;  the  amendments  engrossed,  and  the  bill  with  amendments 
messaged  to  the  House  on  the  afternoon  of  Friday,  June  29.  Will 
you  kindly  state  what,  if  any,  delays  this  bill  met  with  in  the  House 
in  line  with  the  suggestions  contained  in  the  preceding  subject-matter^ 

I  should  also  be  pleased  if  you  could  afford  this  connnittee  any  other 
information  which  in  your  judgment  would  tend  to  place  the  responsi- 
bility for  the  alleged  delays  comprehended  in  the  resolution  where  it 
belongs. 
,  Yours,  very  trul}-,  A.  H.  Howe, 

Clerl\  Committee  on  Printing. 


PRINTING    OF    HILL8    AND    JOINT    RP:S0LUTIUNS.  lOU 

North  St.  Paul,  Mixx.,  Jiilu  12,  lOOG. 
Mr.  A.  H.  Howe, 

Clerk'  Coininlttee  on  Priiitiny,   U.  S.  Senate. 

My  Dear  Sir:  Yours  of  even  date  received.  The  piil)li('  buildings 
bill  reached  me  about  2.80  o'clock  p.  m.,  flune  30,  I  think,  but  1  paid 
no  attention  to  time,  and  it  may  have  been  an  hour  l)et'ore  or  an  hour 
later.  The  bill  was  given  immediate  attention,  and  it  was  sent  to  the 
Printing  Office  as  soon  as  possible;  was  returned  to  me  for  comparison 
with  the  original  papers  without  unnecessary  delay.  Corrections  were 
made  on  some  sheets,  which  were  sent  to  the  Printing  Office  and  cor- 
rected sheets  returned  to  me. 

AVhen  I  had  completed  reading  the  bill  every  sheet  sent  to  the 
Printing  Office  for  correction  had  been  returned,  thus  showing  the 
efficiency  and  promptness  of  the  bill  and  messenger  forces  of  the  Print- 
ing Office.  The  bill  was  then  turned  over  to  the  Committee  on 
Enrolled  Bills  for  comparison.  As  ever}'  word,  punctuation  mark, 
and  even  capital  letters  are  read  aloud  in  the  comparison,  much  time 
is  of  necessity  consumed,  especially  in  reading  large  sheets  of  parch- 
ment, each  equal  to  two  sheets  of  an  engrossed  bill.  Then  came  the 
bill,  for  engrossment  and  enrollment,  authorizing  the  expenditure  of 
money  for  various  public  buildings,  which  went  through  the  same 
process,  as  every  bill  does  in  engrossment  and  enrollment.  There  was 
no  unnecessar}'  delay  with  either  of  these  bills,  the  deficiency  bill,  or 
other  bills  at  any  time  during  the  session  of  the  Fifty-ninth  Congress 
to  cause  censure  or  even  unfavorable  counnent  as  far  as  the  Printing 
Office  is  concerned  with  my  work. 

One  great  trouble  with  which  I  have  to  contend  is  to  convince  some 
Senators  and  many  Congressmen  that  when  a  bill  passes  both  Houses 
it  is  not  ready  by  any  means  to  be  sent  to  the  President.  The  fact  is 
that  actual  work  in  perfecting  it  only  begins,  as  it  must  be  prepared 
by  the  enrolling  clerk,  and  with  the  amendments,  if  any,  sent  to  the 
Printing  Office  (the  distance  between  the  Capitol  and  Printing  Office 
is  great)  for  proof,  returned  to  the  enrolling  clerk,  read,  sent  back,  to 
be  returned  on  parchment  for  another  reading  by  the  enrolling  clerk. 
If  errors  are  found  on  one  or  more  sheets,  those  sheets  are  returned 
for  correction  and  reprinting. 

When  the  corrections  are  all  made  the  parchment,  with  the  original 
papers — the  engrossed  cop3%  the  amendments,  and  the  conference 
report — are  all  turned  over  to  the  Connnittee  on  Enrolled  Bills,  which 
committee  repeat  the  work  of  the  enrolling  clerk  and  his  assistant. 
If  found  correct,  the  bill  is  then  taken  to  the  Speaker  of  the  House 
for  his  signature — possibly  signed  within  an  hour,  probably  not  for 
several  hours.  Some  time  within  the  next  twelve  or  fourteen  hours  it 
is  taken  to  the  Senate  for  the  signature  of  the  Vice-President,  the 
Committee  on  Enrolled  Bills  of  the  Senate,  where  the  number  and 
title  are  entered  in  a  book  kept  for  that  purpose,  then  back  to  the 
Committee  on  Enrolled  Bills  of  the  House,  and  later  it  is  taken  to  the 
White  House, 

The  committee  clerks  on  Appropriations  and  Naval  Affairs  are 
thoroughly  posted  on  conference  reports.  Few  other  committees  are 
so  well  equipped,  which  entails  additional  work  on  the  enrolling  clerk, 
anxiety  as  to  the  outcome,  and  oftentimes  vexatious  delays.  Person- 
ally! was  nearly  worn-out.  The  forty-eight  hours  preceding  adjourn- 
ment I  did  not  have  out  minute's  sleep,  did  not  have  one  mouthful  to 


110  PKINTINft    OF    KILLS    AND    JOINT    KESOLUTIONS. 

eat  from  one  breakfast  until  another,  and  I  think  the  Printing  Office 
bill  force  sutl'ered  an  equally  strenuous  time.  They  are  heroes,  ever}-- 
one  of  them. 

I  have  been  eni'ollino;  clerk  of  the  House  in  every  Repuljlican  Con- 
gress since  and  including  the  Forty-seventh  Congress,  and  with  the 
great  increase  in  the  volume  of  work,  and  consequent  added  responsi- 
bility from  year  to  year,  I  often  wonder  how  I  have  been  able  to  with- 
stand the  strain  incident  to  the  last  week  of  each  expiring  Congress. 
Very  sincerely,  yours, 

C.  R.  McKenxey, 
EnroUiiKj  Clerh  House  of  Repi'e-sentatives. 


United  States  Senate,  Committee  ox  Feinting, 

At  41)  Broadway,  New^  York  City, 

July  31,  1906. 
Mr.  C.  R.  McKenney, 

Office  of  the  Sentinel.,  North  St.  Paul.,  Minn. 
My  Dear  Sir:  The  receipt  is  acknowledged  of  your  favor  of  July 
12.     This  committee  thanks  you  for  the  information  3^ou  impart. 
Very  truly,  j'ours, 

A.  H.  Howe. 


United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  49  Broadw^ay,  New  York  C'ity, 

JiiJil  lU  1906. 
Mr.  M.  E.  Matlack, 

Printing  Clerk'.,  House  of  Representat! res, 

Washington,  D.  C. 
Dear  Sir:  Under  instructions  of  the  Senate  Committee  on  Printing 
and  in  pursuance  of  the  resolution  of  the  Senate  dated  June  30,  1906, 
directing  this  committee  to  inquire  into  the  reasons  for  the  delay  in 
the  Government  Printing  Office  in  sending  to  the  Senate,  especially  in 
the  last  days  of  the  session,  printed  copies  of  bills  and  joint  resolutions 
pending  and  awaiting  action  on  the  part  of  Congress,  I  am  engaged  in 
an  investigation  tending  to  develop  all  the  facts  contemplated  in  the 
aforesaid  resolution.  Realizing  it  will  be  possible  for  you  to  enlighten 
the  committee,  I  write  to  ask  3^ou  to  favor  it  with  such  information  as 
you  may  be  able  to  impart  respecting  the  alleged  delays  in  the  Gov- 
ernment Printing  Office  in  returning  work  to  Congress.  Your  im- 
pressions concerning  especially  the  pul)lic  buildings  bill  and  the  general 
deficiency  bill,  which  appear  to  have  been  the  chief  causes  of  irritation, 
will  be  useful. 

Will  3^ou  kindly  write  me  on  the  subject  at  your  early  convenience. 
Yours,  veiy  trul}", 

A.  H.  Howe, 
Clei'k  of  Printing  Record. 


printing  of  hills  and  joint  resolutions.  ill 

United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printix(4, 

At  -11)  Broadway,  New  York  City. 

Jul II  .11,  lOOG. 
Mr.  M.  E.  Matlack, 

Printing  Clcih^  Ilmii^e  of  Repre^^-utntivex, 

WasJiiiK/tou,  J).  ('. 
Dear  Mr.  Matlack:   This  committee  would  appreciate  an  earl}' 
replay  to  its  letter  of  Jul}'  13,  conccrniuo-  alleged  delays  in  the  han- 
dling of  certain  bills  during  the  closing  days  of  Congress. 
Very  truly,  yours, 

A.  H.  Howe, 
CferJ,-  of  Printing  Recfffds. 


Mount  Holly,  N.  J.,  July  SU  1906. 
Mr.  A.  H.  Howe, 

Chrk  of  Printing  RtGonh, 

U.  S.  Senate,  Washington,  1).  C. 
Dear  Sir:  Your  letter  of  the  11th  instant  received  asking  for  my 
impressions  concerning  alleged  delays  in  the  Government  Printing 
Office  in  returning  work  to  Congress.  The  cause  of  my  delay  in 
replying  to  your  letter  is  that  I  have  been  awa}^  from  home  camping 
and  have  just  returned. 

In  repl}'  to  your  request  1  have  to  say  that  there  was  a  general 
delay  all  through  the  session  on  the  part  of  the  Government  Printing 
Office  in  returning  work  to  Congress  such  as  bills,  resolutions,  etc., 
that  came  to  ine. 

No  complaint  came  to  me,  however,  by  any  Member  of  Congress 
about  such  delay,  but  Mr.  David  Moore,  the  distributing  clerk  of  the 
House,  who  carries  the  printed  l)ills,  resolutions,  etc.,  from  me  to  the 
different  House  committees,  was  always  complaining  to  me  about  such 
delays,  saying  that  the  members  of  the  different  committees  were  con- 
demning him  for  such  delay. 

I  have  from  time  to  time  asked  the  Government  Printing  Office 
over  my  phone  the  cause  of  such  delay,  and  the  answer  has  been  that 
they  Avould  get  the  work  to  me  as  soon  as  it  was  printed. 

Ihave  no  particular  recollection  about  the  delay  in  returning  the 
public  buildings  bill  and  the  general  deficiency  bill. 

If  your  committee  desires  to  interrogate  me  further,  I  will  be  glad 
to  appear  before  them  if  properly  notitied  to  do  so. 
Respectful!}',  yours, 

M.  E.  Matlack, 
Printing  and  Bill  Clerl-,  Iloune  of  Representativei<. 


902  Washington  Street,  Cape  May,  N.  J. 
Mr.  A.  H.  Howe: 

Yours  of  July  31  last  past  just  received.     On  that  date  I  sent  to  you 
my  reply  to  your  letter  of  July  13  last  past.     I  address  the  letter  to 
you  at  the  U.  S.  Senate,  Washington,  D.  C.     Hope  it  has  been  for- 
warded ere  this.     Please  let  me  know  whether  or  not  you  receive  it. 
Very  truly,  yours, 

M.  E.  jNIatlack, 
Bill  and  Printing  ClerJi\  House  of  Reprre-^entatives. 


112  rrinting  of  bills  and  joint  resolutions. 

United  States  Senate  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  41)  Broadway,  New  York  City, 

x\.a<ju><t8,  1906. 
Mr.  M.  E.  Matlack, 

90^  Was/i,ln(jton  Street., 

Cape  May,  jyeio  Jersey. 
Dear  Mr.  Matlack:  I  take  pleasure  in  advising  3'ou,  in  response 
to  your  recent  letter,  that  your  previous  communication,  replying-  to 
the  inquiry  of  this  committee,  came  duly  to  hand,  for  which  accept 
thanks. 

Very  truly  yours,  A.  H.   Howe,  ClerJi'. 


United  States  Senate  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  49  Broadway,  New  York  City, 

Angmt  3,  1906. 
Hon.  Charles  A.  Stillings, 

Pahllc  Printer,  Washington,  D.  0. 
Dear  Mr.  Stillings:  To  the  letter  of  this  committee  dated  July 
11,  addressed  to  Mr.  M.  E.  Matlack,  printing  and  bill  clerk  of  the 
House  of  Representatives,  soliciting  an  expression  from  him  respect- 
ing the  alleged  delays  in  the  Government  Printing  Office  in  returning 
work  to  Congress,  the  attached  reply  is  received.  My  policy  in  the 
conduct  of  the  investigation  provided  under  Senate  resolution  No.  175, 
first  session  Fifty-ninth  Congress,  has  been  to  aii'ord  opportunity  for 
both  sides  to  be  heard,  and,  in  pursuance  of  this  policy,  1  transmit  to 
you  Mr.  Matlack's  letter,  with  request  that  the  same  be  returned  with 
your  answer,  in  order  that  both  may  appear  in  the  records  of  the 
committee's  investigation. 

Very  truh',  yours,  A.  H.  Howe,  Clerk. 


Government  Printing  Office, 
Office  of  the  Public  Printer, 

Washington,  D.  C,  August  10,  1906. 

Dear  Sir:  I  am  in  receipt  of  your  communication  of  August  3 
inclosing  a  communication  dated  July  31  from  M.  E.  Matlack,  print- 
ing and  bill  clerk.  House  of  Representatives,  which  I  have  read  with 
interest. 

It  is  not  possible  for  any  printing  office  having  the  extreme  pressure 
on  it  which  the  Government  Printing  Office  has  to  contend  with  to 
alwa3's  deliver  every  order  right  on  the  minute  and  to  suit  all  of  its 
various  customers. 

Mr.  Matlack's  communication  seems  to  be  a  general  complaint  which 
lacks  any  specific  statements  whereby  I  could  base  sucii  future  action 
as  appears  to  be  necessary  to  avoid  the  conditions  complained  of. 

In  view  of  the  tremendous  pressure  put  upon  this  Office  during  the 
session  of  Congress  just  past,  and  the  fact  that  the  output  of  printed 
matter  relative  to  Senate  and  House  bills,  resolutions,  reports,  etc., 
averaged  at  least  5  per  cent  more  for  this  one  session  of  Congress  than 
for  the  three  sessions  of  the  Fifty-eighth  Congress,  it  would  be  sur- 
prising indeed  if  here  and  there  the  Government  Printing  Office  was 
not  somewhat  delayed  in  completing  all  of  its  orders. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  113 

It  must  not  be  foro-otten  that  this  Office  had  no  knowledo-e  of  the 
extra  heavy  pressure  likely  to  he  put  upon  it,  and  therefore  was  not 
in  the  position  of  a  private  contractor  with  a  specific  amount  of  work 
to  be  produced,  thus  enablino-  him  to  make  amj)h^  provision  for  the 
same. 

Therefore,  this  Office  has  had  to  accommodate  itself  to  tiie  needs  of 
Cono-ress,  but  without  a  reasonable  knowledge  of  just  how  long  the 
extreme  pressure  was  to  continue^:  hence  some  allowance  should  be 
made  along  these  lines,  not  to  excuse  delays  (if  there  were  an}-),  ])nt  to 
recognize  the  difficulty  of  always  foreseeing  just  what  demands  would 
be  made  upon  it. 

I  inclose  herewith  statements  relative  to  this  matter,  as  follows: 

First.  Communication  dated  August  6,  signed  ))}'  Adam  Brandt, 
assistjint  foreman  folding  division. 

Second.  Communication  dated  August  6,  signed  b}'  Charles  lE. 
Young,  foreman  of  printing. 

Third.  Communication  dated  August  8,  signed  V)v  H.  T.  Brian, 
chief  clerk. 

Very  respectfully,  yours,  Chas.  A.  Stillixgs, 


Albert  H.  Howe,  Esq., 

Clerl',  Coininittee  on  Print'mg^ 
United  States  Senate^ 

Ifd  Broadiray,  New  York  City. 


PiihJir  Printer. 


Government  Printing  Office, 

V^ashimjton,  B.  C.,  Axgxst  6\  1906. 

Dear  Sik:  The  only  time  I  remember  a  delay  in  delivering  ])ills  and 
resolutions  to  Congress  is  when  Congress  convened.  From  December 
•i  to  December  21  the  House  introduced  10,061  bills  and  ISi'i  resolu- 
tions. The  Senate  introduced  2,4o2  bills  and  53  resolutions,  making 
12,81:2  bills  and  resolutions  for  both  Houses  in  sixteen  working  daA's, 
averaging  803  bills  per  day,  but  will  say  that  the  l>ills.  resolutions,  and 
reports,  etc.,  were  delivered  from  the  folding  room  to  the  Capitol  as 
fast  as  received.  Will  also  sa}-  that  there  has  been  a  delay  in  deliver- 
ing bills  and  resolutions  to  Congress  at  the  beginning  of  ever}'  Con- 
gress, on  account  of  the  large  number  of  bills  and  resolutions  introduced 
in  the  first  few  days. 

I  do  not  remember  any  delay  after  the  first  rush  was  over. 
RespectfuU}', 

Adam  Brandt. 

Mr.  Chas.  E.  Young,  Foreman  of  Printing. 


Government  Printing  Office, 
Office  of  the  Foreman  of  Printing. 

Wanhington,  D.  <?.,  Augmt  6,  1906. 
Dear  Sir:  I  have  read  the  letter  written  by  Mr.  M.  E.  Matlack, 
House  printing  and  bill  clerk,  and  nuist  say  that  I  can  not  see  where 
any  reasonable  complaint  can  be  made  as  to  the  prompt  delivery  of 
bills,  resolutions,  etc.,  but  inasmuch  as  such  complaint  has  been  made 
I  will  try  to  show  when  and  how  some  of  the  minor  bills  may  not  have 
been  received  as  early  as  desired. 


114  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

While  this  office  is  admirably  equipped  for  almost  every  emergency, 
it  must  be  borne  in  mind  that  there  are  times  when  it  is  impossible  to 
get  all  of  the  work  to  the  Capitol  in  the  early  morning  hours.  For 
instance,  there  may  be  two  or  three  large  appropriation  bills  with 
accompanying  hearings  and  reports,  which  are  ready  to  report  and 
which  must  be  gotten  out  of  the  way  before  the  smaller  and  minor 
bills  are  taken  up. 

If  this  were  not  done  the  action  to  be  taken  on  these  most  important 
supply  bills  would  be  delayed,  and  Congress  would  receive  bills  v^hich 
probably  would  not  be  taken  up  for  months. 

Then  again  there  are  nights  when  7(»()  or  800  bills  and  probably  200 
or  300  reports,  besides  live  or  six  connnittee  hearings,  are  received. 
The  hearings  as  a  general  thing  are  wanted  the  next  morning  at  9  or 
10  o'clock  so  as  to  be  used  in  committee  meetings,  and  so  the  last  bills 
on  such  daj's  may  probabl}"  not  be  delivered  before  11  or  12  o^clock. 
There  has  absolutely  been  no  more  dela}"  at  this  session  than  any  other, 
and  there  never  is  a  dela}'  unless  the  volume  of  work  is  so  great  that 
with  all  of  our  equipment  it  is  an  impossibility  to  handle  it  in  so  short 
a  time. 

The  volume  of  work  handled  during  the  last  session  of  Congress 
was  gotten  out  as  expeditiously  as  during  any  previous  session,  and 
the  excellent  judgment  displayed  on  particularly  heavy  nights  in 
selecting  those  bills,  reports,  hearings,  etc.,  which  were  most  likely 
to  be  called  up  in  either  House  or  in  committee  rooms  and  were  con- 
sequently the  most  important,  is  highly  commendable. 

However,  I  can  assure  you  that  during  the  next  and  following  ses- 
sions everything  possible  will  be  done  to  tr}^  to  perfect  a  system  of 
delivery  to  such  an  extent  that  no  fault  may  be  found  in  any  quarter. 

I  inclose  herewith  a  letter  from  Mr.  Adam  Brandt,  who  has  charge 
of  the  delivery  of  bills  and  documents. 

Hoping  that  I  ma}'  not  have  trespassed  too  much  on  your  valuable 
time,  1  remain. 

Yours,  very  respectfully,  Chas.  E.  Young, 

Foreman  of  Printing. 

Hon.  Chas.  A.  Stillings, 

Puhlic  Printer.,   Wai^hington.,  D.  C. 


Government  Printing  Office, 

Office  of  the  Public  Printer, 
Washington.,  D.  61,  August  8, 1906. 
Sir:  Referring  to  the  attached  letter  from  M.  E.  Matlack,  printing 
and  bill  clerk,  House  of  Representatives,  regarding  the  question  of 
dela3^s  in  printing  bills,  etc.,  in  the  Government  Printing  Office,  I 
wish  to  state  that  1  was  in  very  close  touch  with  the  printing  of  Con- 
gress during  the  last  session,  and  have  looked  into  the  matter  since  the 
receipt  of  Mr.  Matlack's  letter  and  can  not  see  where  there  was  any 
cause  for  complaint. 

The  first  few  days  of  the  session  of  Congress  there  were  introduced 
nearly  13,000  bills  and  resolutions,  making  an  average  of  over  800  bills 
per  day.  Of  course  it  would  tax  even  the  capacity  of  this  office  to 
deliver  all  of  those  bills  the  first  thing  each  and  every  morning. 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 


115 


It  is  understood  that  there  were  more  bills,  resolutions,  docuinonts. 
and  reports  printed  th(>  first  session  of  the  Fifty-ninth  Congress  than 
there  were  during  the  three  sessions  of  the  Fifty-eighth  Congress  com- 
bined, as  the  aceompan^^ing  statement  will  show. 

The  arrangement  which  you  have  made  for  insuring  prompt  delivery 
of  the  work  of  the  next  session  of  Congress  is  such  that  there  need  not 
be  any  delay,  even  with  such  a  great  amount  of  work  as  there  was 
during  the  last  session. 

Verv  trulv,  vours,  H.  T.  Biuan, 

Chief  Clet'Jc. 
Hon.  Chas.  a.  Stillings, 

PuhJic  Printer^  Was/iingto)),  D.  C. 

Comparative  statement — Bills,  resolutions,  laws,  reports,  and  daily  Record,  Fifty-eighth  and 

Fifty -nintli  Congresses. 


'       Fifty- 
I  Fifty-ninth'eighth  Con- 
Congress,  I  gress.  tirst, 


first  ses- 
sion. 


second,  and 
third  ses- 
sions. 


Senate  concurrent  resolntion.* . 

Senate  resolutions 

Senate  joint  resolutions 

Senate  bills 

House  concurrent  resolutions  . 

House  resolutions 

House  joint  resolutions 

House  bills 


3.5  1 

112 

177 

308 

87 

115 

6,5ri6 

7,295 

43 

83 

631 

550 

189 

231 

20, 518 

19, 209 

Reported,  referred,  and  engra«sed  bills. 
Enrolled  bills 


Total  bills 

Laws 

Reports  (Senate  and  House) 

Daily  Record,  including  indexes,  pages. 


2,'<,236  [ 

21, -482 

4,258 

27,903 

17,666 

4,139 

.53, 976 

49,  708 

4,C43 

4,039 

9,522  ; 

9,306 

15, 930 


United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  49  Broadway,  New  York  City, 

JuJt/  10,  1906. 
Mr.  B.  S.  Platt,  The  Boanoke,  Washington,  D.  C. 

Dear  Mr.  Platt:  I  am  in  this  city  conducting  an  investigation  for 
the  Committee  on  Printing  in  pursuance  of  the  resolution  of  the  Senate 
directing  this  committee  to  inquire  into  the  delay's  at  the  Printing 
Office  during  the  last  da3's  of  the  recently  expired  session.  I  tind  it 
necessary,  in  order  to  complete  some  of  the  links  in  the  evidence,  to 
question  3'ou.  I  have  delayed  m}-  departure  from  Washington  solely 
because  of  \o\xy  absence  and  my  inalulit}'  to  get  into  communication 
with  you.  I  understand  you  are  expected  back  to-morrow  night. 
Please  hold  3'ourself  in  readiness  to  see  me  without  fail  on  Thursday 
morning. 

Yours,  very  trulj^,  A.  H.  Howe, 

Cferl'  of  Printing  Beeords. 


Cop3'  mailed  to  the  Secretary's  office,  Senate. 


116  printing  of  bills  and  joint  resolutions. 

United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  49  Broadway,  New  York  City, 

July  IS,  1906. 
Mr.  Alfred  C.  Parkinson, 

Office  of  the  Sccretari/,  United  States  Senate. 

Dear  ]\Ir.  Parkinson:  I  have  been  in  Washinoton  for  over  a  week, 
bv  direction  of  the  Committee  on  Printing-,  conducting-  an  investiga- 
tion as  provided  in  Senator  Hale's  resohition  directing  the  Committee 
on  Printing  to  inquire  into  the  delays  in  the  Printing-  Oflice,  etc.  I 
have  sought  to  trace,  in  so  far  as  possible,  all  the  steps  in  the  handling 
of  the  general  deficiency  i)ill  and  the  ])ublic  buildings  bill,  those  being 
the  measures  around  which  criticism  centered.  I  discovered  that  in 
the  handling  of  the  pul)lic  Iniildings  bill  considerable  time  elapsed 
between  the  moment  that  the  conferees  finally  agreed  on  the  second 
conference  report  and  the  moment  it  was  actually  submitted  in  the 
House. 

There  is  a  well-defined  rumor  that  confusion  existed  in  the  minds 
of  those  having-  charge  of  the  House  proceedings  as  to  the  right  of 
the  House  to  tirst  submit  the  report,  and  that  what  occurred  was  that 
the  House  waited  quite  a  while  for  the  Senate  to  act  on  the  report, 
while  the  Senate  was  waiting,  as  it  rightfully  should,  for  the  House 
to  act,  and  that  this  confusion  would  account  for  at  least  a  brief 
element  of  delay. 

Your  duties  carried  j^ou  over  to  the  House  frequently  that  day,  and 
it  is  conceivable  you  may  have  some  cognizance  of  the  situation.  Will 
you  oblige  me  b}^  giving  me  your  recollection  of  what  happened,  espe- 
cialh^  as  to  the  matter  of  confusion,  if  any,  which  will  enable  this 
committee  to  arrive  at  some  reasonably  accurate  conclusion  as  to 
whether  an  improper  amount  of  time  was  consumed  in  the  handling 
of  the  public  buildings  bill? 

Very  trul}^,  yours,  A.  H.  Howe, 

Clerli\  Committee  on  Printing. 


United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  49  Broadway,  New  York  City, 

July  31,  1906. 
Hon.  Alfred  C.  Parkinson, 

Office  of  the  Secretary,  United  States  Senate, 

Washington,  D.  C: 

Dear  General  Parkinson:  This  committee  would  appreciate  an 
early  repl,y  to  its  letter  of  Juh'  13,  concerning-  alleged  delays  in  the 
handling  of  certain  bills  during  the  closing  daj^s  of  Congress. 
Veiy  truW,  yours, 

A.  H.  Howe, 
Clerh  of  Printing  Records. 


Columbus,  Wis.,  Aur/nst  J,  1906. 

(Received  August  8,  1906.) 
A.  H.  Howe,  Esq., 

Cierli',  Committee  on  Printing, 

United  States  Senate. 
My  Dear  Mr.  Howe:  1  am  in  receipt  of  your  favor  of  Jul}'  31, 
ultimo,  asking  for  a  reply  to  3'our  former  letter  under  date  of  July  13, 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    KKSOLUTIONS.  117 

in  which  you  ask  for  any  int'onnation  I  am  able  to  <«ive  touchino-  the  mat- 
ter of  confusion  and  delay  in  handlino-  certain  hills,  notably  the  omni- 
bus public  buildinos  hill  juid  the  o(Mieral  deliciencv  bill,  durino-  the 
closing-  hours  of  the  late  session. 

Your  letter  of  July  13  did  not  reach  mo  till  after  the  lapse  of  a  week 
or  ten  days,  owing-  to  my  absence  from  home,  and  I,  thoughtlessly 
perhaps,  concluded  that  it  was  too  late  for  a  reply.  However,  I  am 
afraid,  even  now,  I  am  unable  to  give  you  any  definite  inforn)ation 
that  will  aid  your  investigation. 

I  recall  distinctly  the  delay  on  the  part  of  the  House  to  frst  submit 
its  second  ri^port  of  the  committee  of  conference  on  the  public  V)uild- 
ing-  bill.  The  House  authorities  labored  under  erroneous  impression 
that  the  kSenate  conferees  should  submit  their  report  A'/'-s/. 

At  the  suggestion  of  Mr.  McDonald  and  Mr.  Piatt,  made  in  the 
presence  and  with  the  acquiescence  of,  I  think,  Senator  Hale  or  some 
other  excellent  authority  on  the  matter  of  conference  reports,  I  told 
the  House  people  at  least  twice  that  the  Senate  was  waiting-  for  the 
House  conferees  to  make  their  report /?'r.s'?^,  which  they  finally  did,  but 
after  a  wait  and  delay  of  an  hour  or  more.  I  was  at  the  time  cogni- 
zant of  other  delays  and  the  causes  at  the  House  end,  but  was  too  ])usy 
with  my  own  cares  and  duties  to  note  them  and  tix  them  in  my  mind. 
In  a  matter  of  this  kind  one  ought  to  speak  definitely  and  specifically, 
or  not  at  all. 

As  to  dela3's  in  printing,  generally,  I  have  only  this  to  say:  Mr. 
Gilfry  and  mj'self  Avere  often  greatly  annoyed  and  inconvenienced  by 
our  inability  to  get  what  seemed  to  us  a  proper  and  speedy  response 
to  our  vKslt  orders  for  the  printing  of  bills  and  amendments  in  emer- 
gency cases.  I  never  could  understand  (and  I  have  had  some  expe- 
rience with  printing  offices)  why  it  should  take  the  greatest  printing- 
establishment  in  the  world  from  three  hours  to  a  half -day  to  print  and 
send  up  to  the  Senate  a  ))ill  or  amendment  of  less  than  a  page  of  mat- 
ter. A  weekly  countr}'  printing  outfit  would  do  this  work  more 
expeditiously. 

Without  the  records  before  me  I  am  unable  to  specify  particular 
instances  of  these  shortcomings,  but  I  am  sure  my  desk  mates,  Messrs. 
Gilfry,  Rose,  and  McDonald,  will  confirm  what  1  say.  Such  annoy- 
ances are  generally  not  serious,  but  under  imaginable  conditions  might 
readily  and  grievously  become  so.  A  word  from  the  proper  authority 
to  the  Public  Printer  would  doubtless  bring  the  needed  remedy. 

Regretting  my  inability  to  give  you  more  definite  information 
pertaining  to  the  subject  of  3'our  inquiry,  1  am. 

Yours,  truly,  , 

A.  C.  Parkinson. 


United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  41>  Bhoadavay,  New  York  City, 

Avguxt  7,  1906. 
Gen.  A.  C.  Parkinson, 

Co/ (in thus  Wis. 
Dear  General  Parkinson:  1  \\'rite  to  acknowledge  the  receipt  of 
3^our  favor  of  August  3,  190<),  in  reply  to  connnunications  of  this  com- 
mittee regarding  matters  of  delays  in  completing-  the  work  of  the  last 
session  of  Congress.  The  same  will  be  made  a  part  of  the  official 
record  of  this  con)mittee,  and  the  Public  Printer  will  be  given  an 


118  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

opportunity,  under  its  policy  of  hearing'  l)oth  sides,  to  reply  to  j^our 
strictures  upon  that  Otfice.  Since  you  refer  to  Mr.  McDonald  as  being- 
one  of  those  who  would  contirm  your  criticisms  of  the  Government 
Printing-  Othce,  I,  ma}^  as  well  say  that  Mr.  McDonald's  statements  to 
me  did  not  partake  of  serious  criticism  of  the  (xovernment  Printing 
Office. 

Very  truly,  yours,  A.  H.  Howe. 


United  States  Senate,  CoxMmittee  on  Printing, 

At  49  Broadway,  New  York  City, 

Au(/ud  7,  1906. 
The  Public  Printer, 

WasJdiKjton^  J).  C. 
Sir:  You  will,  if  3'ou  please,  take  note  of  the  inclosed  letter  from 
Gen.  A.  C.  Parkinson,  containing-  .severe  criticism  of  the  work  of  the 
Government  Printing  Office,  and  return  the  same  to  me  with  any 
statements  you  may  see  fit  to  make  in  contradiction  or  affirmation  of 
his  assertions,  in  order  that  both  may  appear  in  the  record  of  the 
investigation  conducted  under  the  provisions  of  Senate  resolution 
No.  175,  first  session,  Fifty-ninth  Congress. 

Respectfully,  A.  H.  Howe,  CIerl\ 

Government  Printing  Office, 
Office  of  the  Public  Printer, 

Wa><Jungtou,  D.  C,  Awju^t  10,  1906. 

Dear  Sir:  I  am  in  receipt  of  your  communication  of  August  7, 
inclosing  a  letter  dated  August  3  from  Gen.  A.  C.  Parkinson,  contain- 
ing severe  criticism  of  the  work  of  the  Government  Printing  Office. 

h\  reply  thereto  it  appears  to  me  that  General  Parkinson  is  not 
specilic  enough  in  his  assertions  regarding  delays  at  the  Government 
Printing  Office. 

I  inclose  herewith  statements  relative  to  this  matter,  as  follows: 

First,  communication  dated  August  8,  signed  by  Joseph  Dierken 
and  T.  Frank  Morgan. 

Second,  comnuinication  dated  August  9,  signed  b}^  Charles  E.  Young, 
foreman  of  printing. 

Third,  communication  dated  August  10,  signed  by  H.  T.  Brian,  chief 
clerk. 

Briefly,  it  appears  to  me  that  unless  General  Parkinson  can  cite 
specific  instances  which  have  come  to  his  personal  knowledge,  wherein 
the  Government  Printing  Office  has  failed  to  meet  the  requirements 
of  Congress,  that  there  is  no  point  at  which  I  can  take  up  his  criticism 
with  a  view  to  remedying  the  conditions  he  complains  of. 

I  have  already  taken  steps  to  safeguard  Congressional  work  during 
the  next  session  of  Congress,  which  I  think  will,  if  possible,  be  more 
effective  than  methods  prevailing  heretofore;  although  I  freely  admit 
that  this  office  gives  the  promptest  and  most  intelligent  service  of  any 
printing  office  of  which  I  have  any  knowledge: 
Very  respectfully  yours, 

Chas.  a.  Stillings, 

Puhltc  Printer. 

Albert  H.  Howe,  Esq., 

Clerk.,  Committee  on  Printing.,  ZJ.  S.  Senate., 

Jt9  Broadway y  Neui  York. 


printing  of  bills  and  joint  resolutions.  11*.) 

Government  Printing  Office, 
Office  of  the  Foreman  of  Printing, 

1 1  \(xh  In  (/ton ,  D.  C. ,  .4  >i(jiiM  S,  IDIJG. 
Dear  Sir:  In  reference  to  letter  of  Gen.  A.  C.  Parkinson,  will 
state  that  at  no  time  has  there  been  any  delay  in  handling-  rush  bills 
passing-  throuoh  our  hands.  On  the  contrary,  ev^ery  eti'ort  is  always 
made  to  facilitate  bill  printing*.  We  have  time  without  number  deliv- 
ered page  bills  within  one-half  an  hour.  We  can  recall  no  instanccof 
a  rush  bill  coming  from  the  Senate  when  any  delay  occurred  at  this 
end  of  the  line.  Of  course  where  cop}'  is  furnished,  interlined,  with 
marginal  notes,  and  with  streamers  pasted  thereon,  it  n<H'('ssaril3' 
consumes  time  and  delay. 

Very  respectfullj^  Joseph  Dikkkkn. 

T.  Frank  Morcjan. 

Mr.  Charles  E.  Young, 

Foreman  of  Print rng. 


Government  Printing  Office, 
Office  of  the  Foreman  of  Printing, 

Washington,  D.  C  August  9,  1006. 
Dear  Sir:  I  inclose  herewith  a  letter  in  reference  to  the  coimnuni- 
cation  from  Gen.  A.  C.  Parkinson,  which  is  signed  by  Messrs.  Joseph 
Dierken  and  T.  Frank  Morgan,  the  two  parties  who  are  in  immediate 
charge  of  the  bills  which  are  received  in  the  daytime  and  which  are 
evidently  meant  by  Mr.  Parkinson  in  his  letter.  h\  the  ar)sence  of 
any  particular  bill  or  occasion  being  cited  it  is,  of  course,  impossil)le 
to  defend  this  Office,  only  in  a  general  way,  against  such  criticism  as 
is  made  in  the  al)ove-mentioned  letter. 

If  a  bill  is  received  at  the  Government  Printing-office  plainly  marked 
"Rush,"  it  is  immediately  put  in  hand  and  returned  to  the  Capitol  at 
the  earliest  possible  moment. 

Every  eti'ort  is  made  to  comply  with  the  wants  and  wishes  of  all  of 
the  officials  at  the  Capitol,  and  I  know  of  no  instance  where  all  hands 
did  not  give  their  best  efforts  in  order  to  expedite  the  work  of 
Congress. 

Yours,  very  truly,  Chas.  E.  Y^oung, 

Forehian  of  Printing. 
Hon.  Chas.  A.  Stillings, 

Puhlic  Printer. 


Government  Printing  Office, 
Office  of  the  Pcm.ic  Phinter, 

Washington,  D.  C,  Auguxt  10,  1906. 
Sir:  Referring  to  the  attached  letter,  I  desire  to  state  I  have  no 
idea  to  what  General  Parkinson  refers  when  he  says  that  it  takes 
from  three  hours  to  one-half  a  day  to  print  a  bill,  l^nless  there  is 
some  specitic  case  mentioned  I  would  not  know  how  to  answer  his 
assertion,  but  I  do  know  that  day  in  and  day  out  bills  come  down  from 
the  Senate  and  House  that  are  returned  inside  of  an  hour. 


120  PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

You  have  already  directed  that  exact  time  be  kept  of  all  bills  and 
docunuMits  fi'oin  C'onoress  next  session,  and  there  can  be  no  case  where 
if  a  delay  does  occur  it  can  not  be  accounted  for  immediately. 
Very  truly,  vours, 

H.  T.  Brian,  Chief  Clerl: 
Hon.  Chas.  a.  Stillings, 

Fuhlic  Priritej\  Washhu/fon  D.  C. 


United  States  Senate,  Committee  on  Printing, 

At  49  Broadway,  New  York  City, 

July  SO,  1906. 
Hon.  Charles  A.  Stillings, 

Public  Prlrdet\  WasJilngton,  D.  C. 
My  Dear  Mr.  Stillings:  Captain  Brian,  in  his  testimony  before 
the  Senate  Committee  on  Printing,  on  page  3  GLT  a,  of  the  galley 
proof,  asked  permission  to  submit  the  rules  goyerniiig  the  enrolling 
force  of  the  Senate  in  their  handling  of  copy  and  proof.  I  shall  be 
glad  to  haye  a  copy  of  the  aforesaid  rules  to  be  made  a  part  of  the 
record  of  the  'investigation.  The  rules  in  question  were  drafted  hj 
Mr.  B.  S.  Piatt  and  revised  l)y  C^iptain  Brian. 
VeiT  truly  yours, 

A.  H.  How^E. 


Government  Printing  Office, 
Office  of  the  Public  Printer, 

WasJdvgton,  D.  (7.,  July  31,  1906. 
My  Dear  Mr.   Howe:    In  compliance  with  the  request  contained 
in  your  favor  of   July  30,  I  inclose  herewith  copy  of  authority  for 
engrossing  and  enrolling  bills,  together  with  the  rules  promulgated  b}^ 
the  Joint  Committee  on  Printing. 

Very  truly,  yours,  Chas.  A.  Stillings, 

Puhlic  Printei\ 
Mr.  A.  H.  Howe, 

Clerl\  Coyiiiiiittee  on  Prhtthg,   United  States  Senate. 


This  is  the  authority  under  whieh  the  Government  Printing  Ofiice 
prints  engrossed  and  enrolled  bills: 

That  beginning  ^vith  the  tirst  day  of  the  regular  session  of  the  Fifty- 
third  Congress,  to  wit:  the  tirst  Monday  in  December,  eighteen  hun- 
dred and  ninety-three,  in  lieu  of  l)eing  engrossed,  every  bill  and  joint 
resolution  in  each  House  of  Congress  at  the  stage  of  the  consideration 
at  which  a  bill  or  joint  resolution  is  at  present  engro.ssed,  shall  be 
printed,  and  such  printed  copy  shall  take  the  place  of  what  is  now 
known  as,  and  shall  be  called  the  engrossed  bill  or  resolution  as  the 
case  may  be,  and  it  shall  he  dealt  with  in  the  same  manner  as  engrossed 
bills  and  joint  resolutions  are  dealt  with  at  present,  and  shall  be  sent 
in  printed  form,  after  passing,  to  the  other  House,  and  in  that  form 
shall  be  dealt  with  ])y  that  House,  and  its  othcers  in  the  same  manner 
in  which  engrossed  ))ills,  and  joint  resolutions  are  now  dealt  with. 


PRINTING    OB^    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  121 

Reml'ved^  That  when  such  bill,  or  joint  resolution  shall  have  passed 
both  Houses,  it  shall  be  printed  on  parchment,  which  pi-int  sliall  be  in 
lieu  of  wliat  is  now  known  as,  and  shall  be  caUed.  the  enroUed  bill,  or 
joint  resolution,  as  the  case  may  ))e,  and  shall  be  dealt  with  in  the  same 
manner  in  which  enrolled  bills,  and  joint  resolutions  are  now  (h^alt  with. 

Beifolred^  That  the  Joint  Committee  on  Printino-  is  her(>by  charged 
with  the  duty  of  having-  the  fon^going  resolutions  propei'ly  executed, 
and  is  empowered  to  take  such  steps  as  ma}'  be  necessary  to  carry 
them  into  etl'ect,  and  provide  for  the  speedy  execution  of  the  printing 
herein  contemplated. — House  of  Representatives^Oct.  26^1893^  Senate^ 
]\^oi\  1,  1S9S. 

[The  matter  in  small  tvpe  is  not  a  part  of  the  rules  and  was  inserted 
at  this  Office.] 

In  carrying  out  the  foregoing  concurrent  resolution,  passed  hy  both 
Houses  of  Congress,  it  is  necessary  that  some  instructions  l)o  i)romul- 
gated  for  the  guidance  of  the  Pu])lic  Printer  and  the  enrolling  clerks 
of  the  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives. 

After  a  bill  or  joint  resolution  is  passed  by  either  House,  the  enroll- 
ing clerks  of  the  respective  Houses  will  see  to  it  that  the  copy  of  such 
bill  or  joint  resolution  and  amendments  thereto,  and  messages  accom- 
panying the  same,  is  properly  prepared,  using  or  writing  on  one  side 
of  the  paper  only,  with  riders  and  amendments  so  attached  as  to  per- 
mit the  copv  to  be  divided  into  suitable  "takes''  for  the  printer,  and 
without  unnecessary  delay  transmitted  to  the  Public  Printer,  who 
will  immediately  hav^e  the  same  put  in  tvpe  (see  Sample  A)  [sampie  a 

shows  the  type  of  a  regular  bill  page  set  in  Bruce"s  English  Ko.  19,  26^  ems  wide,  25  lines  long,  with 

a  pica  slug  between  each  line]  and,  as  soou  as  proof-read  and  corrected,  send  a 
clean  copy  for  revision  to  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  to  which 
the  same  belongs.  He,  in  turn,  will  compare  the  proof  with  the  passed 
bill  or  joint  resolution  (desk  copy),  strictlv  conforming  it  thereto,  and 
return  the  same  to  the  Public  Printer  without  delay,  who  will,  as  soon 
as  possible,  return  a  completed  copy  of  the  same  to  the  enrolling  clerk 
of  the  House  to  which  it  belongs,  and  the  clerk  will  again  compare  it 
with  the  passed  bill  or  joint  rejsolution.  This  will  be  the  engr<ix><ed 
bill,  and  will  be  the  one  transmitted  by  the  Secretaiy  of  the  Senate 
and  Clerk  of  the  House  of  Representatives  to  the  respective  Houses 
as  the  official  cop}' . 

All  attestations  to  the  passage  of  ))ills,  joint  resolutions,  amendments 
to  the  same,  and  messages,  must  be  in  writing,  a  blank  ])eing  left  at 
the  end  of  each,  for  that  purpose,  thus: 

Attest: 


Secretary. 
or 

Clerk. 

When  the  Senate  passes  a  bill  or  joint  resolution  it  shall  be  engrossed 

on  inll'de  paper  (see  Sample  B).       [mample  B  shows  the  paper  and  size  of  a  completed 
engrossed  bill,  Tfe  inches  wide  by  11  inches  long,  printed  on  firsit-class  white  ledger  paper,  21  x  32 

inches,  so  pounds  to  the  ream.]     AVhcu  the  Housc  })asses  a  bill  or  joint  resolu- 
tion it  shall  be  engrossed  on  paper  of  a  hhilxJt  color  (see  Sample  C). 

[Sample  C  same  as  Sample  B,  except  that  the  paper  is  blue  insteail  of  white]       Si/C  of  page 

and  paper  to  be  like  samples  B  and  C. 


122  TEINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS. 

When  a  House  bill  or  joint  resolution  passes  the  Senate,  and  when 
a  Senate  bill  or  joint  resolution  passes  the  House,  that  fact  shall  be 
indorsed  on  the  back  of  the  bill  or  joint  resolution  by  the  enrolling 
clerk. 

When  a  l)ill  or  joint  resolution  has  passed  both  Houses  of  Cono-ress, 
the  enrolling-  clerk  of  the  House  in  which  it  originated  will  see  to  it 
that  the  copy  of  such  bill  or  joint  resolution  and  amendments  thereto, 
is  properly  prepared,  using  or  writing  on  one  side  of  the  paper  only, 
with  ridei's  and  amendments  so  attached  as  to  permit  the  copy  to  be 
divided  into  suitable  ^' takes"  for  the  printer,  and  without  unnecessary 
delay  transmitted  to  the  Public  Printer,  who  will  immediatel};'  have 

the  same  put  in  t3'pe  (see  Sample  D),  [SampleDshowsthe  type  of  an  enrolled  bm 
set  in  Bruce's  English  No.  19,  32^  ems  wide,  43  lines  long,  with  a  3-to-pica  lead  between  each  line] 

and,  as  soon  as  proof-read  and  corrected,  send  a  clean  copy  for  revi- 
sion to  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  to  which  the  same  belongs. 
He,  in  turn,  will  compare  the  proof  (which  will  be  on  paper)  with  the 
passed  bill  or  joint  resolution  (desk  copy),  strictly  conforming  it 
thereto,  and  return  the  same  to  the  Public  Printer  without  delay. 
This  will  be  the  e)i rolled  bill. 

The  final  print  will  be  on  parchnent^  the  size  of  page  and  parchment 

to  be  like  Sample  E,  [Sample  E  is  a  sheet  of  parchment  10f%  x  14^  inches,  with  a  border  of 
parallel  rule  printed  in  red,  1  inch  margin  top  and  bottom  and  11  inch  margin  on  sides]  and 

returned  bj'  the  Public  Printer  to  the  enrolling  clerk  of  the  House  in 
which  it  originated.  The  clerk  will  again  compare  it  with  the  one 
passed  by  both  Houses  and  ascertain  that  it  is  an  exact  copy  of  the 
one  passed  by  both  Houses  before  sending  it  to  the  Committee  on 
Enrolled  Bills. 

Before  the  final  printing  on  parchment,  the  greatest  care  must  be 
exercised  by  the  enrolling  clerks  of  the  respective  Houses  in  ascertain- 
ing its  accuracv,  and  when  so  ascertained,  the  enrolling  clerk  will 
notify  the  Public  Printer  thereof. 

As  is  at  present  the  case,  the  signature  of  the  officer  on  the  back  of 
the  last  sheet  of  an  enrolled  bill  or  joint  resolution  as  to  where  it 
originated,  and  the  signature  of  the  Speaker  of  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives and  Vice-President  of  the  United  States  (or  those  w^ho  sign 
in  lieu  of  them),  shall  l)e  in  writing,  blanks  being  left  for  them,  thus: 


Speaker  of  the  House  of  Representatives. 

Vice-President  of  the  United  States  and 

President  of  the  Senate. 

It  will  be  the  duty  of  the  Public  Printer  to  strictly  follow  the  copy 
of  passed  bills  and  joint  resolutions  sent  to  him;  also  of  amendments 
accompanying  the  same.  He  will  consult  freely  and  at  all  times  vvith 
the  enrolling  clerks  in  case  of  doubt,  not  taking  anything  for  granted, 
as  printing  the  bills  and  joint  resolutions  and  amendments  thereto  does 
not  relieve  the  enrolling  clerks  of  responsibility  if  the  copy  they  fur- 
nish the  Public  Printer  is  strictly  followed. 

It  will  be  the  duty  of  the  enrolling  clerks  to  furnish  the  Public 
Printer  the  copy  for  the  engrossed  bills  and  joint  resolutions  and 
amendments  thereto,  also  for  enrolled  bills,  and  to  return  the  proof  to 
the  Public  Printer,  as  expeditiously  as  possible,  so  that  the  same  may 
be  printed  and  returned  to  the  enrolling  clerks  and  by  the  proper 


1 


PRINTING    OF    BILLS    AND    JOINT    RESOLUTIONS.  123 

officers  transmitted  to  either  House  with  as  little  delay  as  pos.sible. 
They  shall  furnish  with  each  hill,  joint  resolution,  and  amendment  the 
proper  headings,  captions,  indorsements,  or  other  matter  that  is  to  be 
printed. 

The  utmost  vig-ilance  and  promptness  are  necessary  at  all  times,  and 
more  especially  in  the  closino-  hours  of  a  Congress. 

Of  the  engrossed  bills  and  joint  resolutions  lU  copies  only  shall' be 
printed,  of  which  5  shall  be  delivered  to  the  Secretary  of  the  Senate 
and  5  to  the  Clerk  of  the  House. 

Of  the  enrolled  bills  1  copy  only  shall  be  printed  of  each  bill. 

O 


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